September 9, 2024 Design Review Board Meeting

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay, remote attendees. Can you hear us?

Yerba Buena SX80: Oh, new audio.

Yerba Buena SX80: You can

Yerba Buena SX80: are connected on Facebook.

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay? 2 seasons. Yes, alright.

Yerba Buena SX80: He’s gonna make it soon.

Yerba Buena SX80: Ethan, you can come to the table. Yes.

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah.

Yerba Buena SX80: See?

Yerba Buena SX80: See?

Yerba Buena SX80: Alright, I will

Yerba Buena SX80: start with the call to order. So thank you for joining us tonight for the Bcdc Design Review Board meeting. I’d like to remind the Board members to please speak directly into the microphone in front of you and have it on only when you want to speak, and please ensure that your video on your laptops is always on, but your audio is disabled.

Yerba Buena SX80: Sure.

Yerba Buena SX80: we are located at the Metro center in San Francisco, and our meeting will include participants who are here and those are who are participating online.

Yerba Buena SX80: I will call the roll.

Yerba Buena SX80: alright, and note the staff in the room.

Yerba Buena SX80: Chair. Mccann.

Yerba Buena SX80: present vice chair, string, present board, member Battaglia.

Yerba Buena SX80: present

Yerba Buena SX80: Board. Member Chow.

Yerba Buena SX80: Right here, Board, member leader here, board members attending online board, member Anderson.

Cody Anderson: Here.

Yerba Buena SX80: Board, member Fonseca Flores.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Here, here.

Yerba Buena SX80: And board. Member Pellegrini.

Stefan Pellegrini: Here.

Yerba Buena SX80: Alright and staff attending tonight are myself, Ashley, Tomerlan.

Yerba Buena SX80: Gary Jewett, Ethan Levine, and Catherine Penn will be joining us later today.

Yerba Buena SX80: Oh.

Yerba Buena SX80: okay. So the next item on the agenda is the meeting summary, and I

Yerba Buena SX80: that was a meeting summary from our last meeting. If I recall from a few months ago, and

Yerba Buena SX80: as always, really good notes it was a very interesting meeting. I I can’t recall. It’s in the note. It’s in the notes, of course, but I think not. Everyone was able to be there. And this is an ongoing very large, complex project that

Yerba Buena SX80: people here at Bcdc are working on as well as people around the bay and so it was a productive meeting and good to

Yerba Buena SX80: see the summary.

Yerba Buena SX80: Are there any comments on the meeting notes. Any corrections that anyone has

Yerba Buena SX80: anyone online?

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay, now.

Yerba Buena SX80: okay, I just had one very small comment, which was, page 6.3.

Yerba Buena SX80: It was just! I’d just like to insert a word. There was the the sentence starts. Jacinda Mccann observed that

Yerba Buena SX80: biodiversity and it kept going on after that is threatened, etc. But and I just wanted to insert a word that, maintaining biodiversity with what the intention of that

Yerba Buena SX80: sentence was

Yerba Buena SX80: Apart from that, no other comments

Yerba Buena SX80: so those were present at the meeting. Could someone move to accept the meeting notes, make a motion to approve the minutes. Second.

Yerba Buena SX80: I’ll second. Thanks, Bob.

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay, all in favor.

Yerba Buena SX80: Actually.

Yerba Buena SX80: I I think it’s past. I think there were only a few of us at that meeting. So yeah, okay.

Yerba Buena SX80: as always. Excellent meeting notes. So thank you. And you know, for the newer board members, it is always helpful to go back and read the meeting notes, because they are particularly good now, and we have gone through various iterations over many years of

Yerba Buena SX80: level of detail in meeting notes, not having meeting notes, all sorts of variations. So we’re very grateful for the work that’s going into them at the moment.

Yerba Buena SX80: So thank you. Ashley and team.

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay, next item

Yerba Buena SX80: staff update. So thank you. Chair Mccann.

Yerba Buena SX80: we will be having a board meeting on October 7, th and it will be a review of the public draft of the Regional Shoreline Adaptation Plan guidelines, a section of which the Board reviewed in June

Yerba Buena SX80: the public draft. The public draft is to be released on September 23, rd and I aim to get the mailing and meeting materials out. Then, to maximize the time you will have reading that through the document.

Yerba Buena SX80: Does the Board have any questions?

Yerba Buena SX80: so are you saying that we’ll get the document in the beginning of October, and then we’ll have an opportunity to provide comments to you or to the Rsap

Yerba Buena SX80: people. The R. The planning staff developing the Rsap will be bringing the public draft to the board

Yerba Buena SX80: the public draft is being posted online on September 23, rd which is before our typical mailing cycle. We typically mail out materials 10 days before the meeting.

Yerba Buena SX80: And so I’m going to try to have all of our mailing materials out at the 23rd the 1st day that it’s open and available.

Yerba Buena SX80: and so you’ll have a few extra days to review it before the Drb. And then

Yerba Buena SX80: or before the Drb. Meeting, and then we’ll collect the comments at the Drb. Meeting, and that will go into the public comment record for the Rsap.

Yerba Buena SX80: So so any comments we have will be part of the public comment.

Yerba Buena SX80: The document won’t change before it’s released to the public.

Yerba Buena SX80: Right? Okay, thank you. Appreciate it.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, just to comment on that. When we met and reviewed the partial document, which was only a small part of the document. We really only got through part of that.

Yerba Buena SX80: but

Yerba Buena SX80: amounts of narrative, and that with the dialogue, and so on, that we had. So

Yerba Buena SX80: it’s sort of hard to visualize this. But we’re gonna need some guidance, I think on. You know how to make

Yerba Buena SX80: best use of the time, because by the time they which we need a presentation

Yerba Buena SX80: by the time that happens, and with the level of detail in the document, you know, we we might struggle to provide comprehensive feedback.

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah, I actually have another comment.

Yerba Buena SX80: Sorry. And when you’re

Yerba Buena SX80: every way. I actually think this is a pretty pretty important document, the Rsap. I think it’s really a a great endeavor, and I agree with the state that there should be adaptation plans. And it’s great that Dcdc is, you know, doing this?

Yerba Buena SX80: it seems that it’s a bit rushed

Yerba Buena SX80: and I say that because

Yerba Buena SX80: I I feel like I’d like to provide more. Input.

Yerba Buena SX80: But I, as I’ve said in other meetings, I can’t remember who is Drv. Or the ecrb.

Yerba Buena SX80: I really don’t think my input is just like the general public

Yerba Buena SX80: being on both of these boards and having the experience that I do.

Yerba Buena SX80: And

Yerba Buena SX80: it’s a little odd, because I don’t

Yerba Buena SX80: think that it’s not apparent to me that the Ecrp and Dr. B.

Yerba Buena SX80: Roles, in addressing

Yerba Buena SX80: adaptation on a project level are

Yerba Buena SX80: necessarily incorporated or

Yerba Buena SX80: reflected? Or are you sure if they’re even mentioned in the Rsap which

Yerba Buena SX80: results in kind of a funny situation where communities may be following one set of protocols. But then, when a project comes up

Yerba Buena SX80: which

Yerba Buena SX80: is consistent with that municipal municipalities, protocols.

Yerba Buena SX80: and the rsat will not be necessarily consistent.

Yerba Buena SX80: what I might say, or other people might say so. I think it’s a little odd, you know. I’m a little frustrated by the situation.

Yerba Buena SX80: Thank you.

Yerba Buena SX80: Well, Bob, at least the the report’s gonna be posted the draft 23rd of September. So there’s some time there to digest it. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true, I I agree, and I I do appreciate the opportunity to review it as a member of the general public.

Yerba Buena SX80: Did did anyone say how many pages there are in this document. Did I miss that? I’m just, is it? You know? I mean, you were saying it’s gonna take some time. How are we gonna get through all that. So I’m just planning ahead how? How? You know how many pages are in this document? How long will it take to review it, and should we divide it up so that, you know, maybe board members would take charge of the chapter, or some portion of it to review, I mean, I think everybody should should kind of

Yerba Buena SX80: skim it, review it, but maybe dive deeper into certain portions. Yeah, or get some help from the staff on the areas that you think are most relevant to the expertise of this committee to focus on in the document. Because there’s a lot in that document. A lot of technical

Yerba Buena SX80: material.

Yerba Buena SX80: So yeah, it could be some combination of that. Yeah, it’s a good idea. It is lengthy. I haven’t. I haven’t seen the laid out version, but I think it’s probably on the

Yerba Buena SX80: order of magnitude of 80 pages or so 80 to 100 pages.

Yerba Buena SX80: And we we could we could pose that question to the team that’s leading up the development of the Rsap to see if there’s particular sections. They think the Board review would would be particularly helpful for yeah. And and in terms of the level of you know where they’re at in the process, you know what? What’s

Yerba Buena SX80: most helpful, most relevant for us to be commenting on, I mean, are there some things that are now? Clearly, you know the framework is clearly established? You know, some of the higher level principles, you know, really sorted out, you know, it’s like, what? What level of detail do you want us to focus on.

Yerba Buena SX80: Actually, one more question relating to that. There’s a commission

Yerba Buena SX80: workshop on this as well. Is that correct? Did I read that?

Yerba Buena SX80: Not email correctly?

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah. I let me let me try and pull it up. I’m pretty sure that the Commission is hearing it. Sec. It’s holding a workshop on the second meeting in October, and there’s also gonna be a public workshop next Friday, the 13th is, Larry said. They’re not superstitious, so, but they’re they’re holding a public workshop, which board members are, of course,

Yerba Buena SX80: more than welcome to to attend. But yeah, I believe the Commission is next year, and at the end of October, right? Okay, thank you.

Yerba Buena SX80: There are no members of the public online. So I’m just gonna go past the public comment

Yerba Buena SX80: for items not on tonight’s agenda.

Yerba Buena SX80: Give me a second as I pull up the presentation

Yerba Buena SX80: on the updated stuff for us.

Yerba Buena SX80: You’re not moving forward.

Yerba Buena SX80: I’m feeling very rusty with the presentations right now. Yeah,

Yerba Buena SX80: here we go.

Yerba Buena SX80: Sure.

Yerba Buena SX80: So I just in addition to what Ethan mentioned. So the September 19th Commission meeting is cancelled, and instead, we’re going to be having a webinar and the rsap guidelines.

Yerba Buena SX80: Is that I thought that was the the webinars on the 13, th but I could. Well, I don’t know. So

Yerba Buena SX80: Jackie had said

Yerba Buena SX80: today. So October 17th is the rcap. Hearing September 19th is a webinar introducing the Rcep draft guidelines.

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay, we can confirm. But I think that that is, I think that that’s that was the plan.

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah, I mean, Bob, to your point. If you were available to get online. Even, you know, that’s another opportunity to provide input.

Yerba Buena SX80: get online for which the Commission

Yerba Buena SX80: sessions online on the guidelines. The Commissioner sessions. Yeah, okay, yeah. I could think about that. I’m sorry I was thinking about something else. But I did go to the practitioners meeting.

Yerba Buena SX80: Haven’t really heard much back, and I’ve tried to reach out to a few people, and I haven’t had any response. So I’m assuming it’s simply because they’re too busy.

Yerba Buena SX80: But that doesn’t give me a lot of confidence that my input has been considered adequately.

Yerba Buena SX80: So I just wanted to remind the board of the regulatory back on, that is, or regulatory framework that established the board.

Yerba Buena SX80: and what the Board was envisioned to provide with. Provide the commission.

Yerba Buena SX80: So it’s the Board shall advise the Commission and the staff on the appearance and design of projects for which a commission permit or consistency determination is needed, particularly as the project affects public access to the bay and shoreline, and in practice we’ve seen this is the more of a quality or qualitative assessment of the public access the quantity of

Yerba Buena SX80: amenities, and the area that is consistent with the project being reviewed.

Yerba Buena SX80: So what the Dr. B. Reviews

Yerba Buena SX80: or when reviewing the project, the Drb. May rely upon

Yerba Buena SX80: among other things, the Bay Plan policies, the public access design guidelines, the Commission’s regulations, consideration of environmental factors, and their experience and expertise to evaluate design issues raised by proposed projects.

Yerba Buena SX80: and the typical observations are the quality, quantity, and usefulness of the public access is part of the overall post project, the resilience of the design and the longevity of the construction, the opportunities foreign, the constraints to public access.

Yerba Buena SX80: Oh, this is the one that had notes. We’ve heard over the years that there are some issues with our stack reports, and we want to improve them to best serve board members

Yerba Buena SX80: for efficient reviews. But also from the staff perspective, making sure that they’re spending their time efficiently and not on something that’s not being used. So from board members. We’ve heard that

Yerba Buena SX80: more transparency on issues or on the issues that staff want feedback on would be appreciated.

Yerba Buena SX80: Board members may skim some of the less valuable sections. So we wanna know what those sections are.

Yerba Buena SX80: And then certain sections of the report provide more value than others

Yerba Buena SX80: and sections detailing the history of a project and its past interaction with the Cdc. Are most helpful, while the sections detailing these policies and guidelines provided less value.

Yerba Buena SX80: And from staff we’ve heard that permit staff spend significant times developing a report to brief the Drb. On upcoming projects. Staff and managers expressed concern that the length and complexity of these reports has increased in recent years

Yerba Buena SX80: from roughly 5 page or 5 to 6 pages to 12 to 15 pages.

Yerba Buena SX80: And whether or not this is means that

Yerba Buena SX80: the effort expended exceeds their value, and that Staff noted. These reports may provide more detail than necessary for the boards to understand a project.

Yerba Buena SX80: the typical outline for a Drv. Staff report. Is the introduction. So this is usually like the executive summary, one page

Yerba Buena SX80: naming the project proponent, the representatives.

Yerba Buena SX80: a vicinity map.

Yerba Buena SX80: a brief project overview which is like a hundred to 150 words.

Yerba Buena SX80: just high, very high level points and list, also the prior reviews by the Drp.

Yerba Buena SX80: Then we move on to the second section of the reports. Which is the project site. We go into a description of the site history.

Yerba Buena SX80: the existing conditions and the public access. And then the social environmental context.

Yerba Buena SX80: This is when I’m really wishing I had my notes.

Yerba Buena SX80: might

Yerba Buena SX80: escape that they fast.

Yerba Buena SX80: Alright, we got.

Yerba Buena SX80: What is it?

Yerba Buena SX80: 3 dots

Yerba Buena SX80: this point? I’m just gonna read my notes.

Yerba Buena SX80: So for the site history, how far back do you want us to go? This currently shows up as both physical and cultural site history. And usually this gets into the prior site uses, but occasionally will describe pre-development state of the site. And does that help you? Or should we focus on conditions that inform current proposal.

Yerba Buena SX80: the existing conditions and public access. This also mixes the physical site and the cultural uses, including existing public access, both required and not required by Vcdc

Yerba Buena SX80: and the social and environmental context. This section relies on the community vulnerability mapping tool to identify socioeconomic indicators and contamination burdens in the nearby communities based on 2,020 census data.

Yerba Buena SX80: Currently, we will make a statement similar to

Yerba Buena SX80: the site is located within a 2020 census block

Yerba Buena SX80: in the city that is designated as having a high level of social vulnerability based on high percentiles, 70th or above. For the following indicators renter no vehicle disabled single parent and very low income.

Yerba Buena SX80: Is this a usable, or is this usable for you in relating to the project design?

Yerba Buena SX80: Is there a way to present that information that would better suit your needs

Yerba Buena SX80: alright.

Yerba Buena SX80: The next section of

Yerba Buena SX80: the

Yerba Buena SX80: staff reports are the current proposal

Yerba Buena SX80: where we get into the project description. That’s

Yerba Buena SX80: usually multiple paragraphs describing the overall design.

Yerba Buena SX80: Then we go into the public access elements and uses, and that section is coordinated with the exhibits showing proposed plans and drawings, and frequently becomes an inventory list in the Staff Report

Yerba Buena SX80: for sea level rise. This section of the report is typically paired with a series of graphic exhibits

Yerba Buena SX80: showing site sections relative to current and future water levels.

Yerba Buena SX80: Is this section useful for you? And is there too little or too much information? And what else would you be looking for

Yerba Buena SX80: community engagement? And this typically describes the strategy and efforts made or planned for community engagement and then goes into the feedback received? Is the board interested in the strategy? Or should we focus more on the outcomes that have informed the design?

Yerba Buena SX80: And then we also will include the approval and construction timeline for the context of

Yerba Buena SX80: where the project is

Yerba Buena SX80: After the proposed project we move into the Commission plans and policies and guidelines section where staff will do an initial analysis on a plan. The relevant a plan policies.

Yerba Buena SX80: flag, any

Yerba Buena SX80: priority use area special area plan and bay plan map notes specific to the site, and then we’ll also describe some of the public access design guidelines

Yerba Buena SX80: and finally, the last section of the staff reports are the Board questions.

Yerba Buena SX80: Staff recommends that the Board Frame usually recommends that the Board frame their remarks of the proposed park or proposed site, considering the 7 public access objectives from the public access design guidelines and then provide feedback on the proposed access

Yerba Buena SX80: related to the Commission’s policies on sea level rise, environmental justice and social equity. And then the project has will have specific staff questions

Yerba Buena SX80: as a reminder. The 7 objectives for public access are, make the public access public, make the public access usable, provide, maintain, and enhance visual access to the bay.

Yerba Buena SX80: maintain and enhance visual quality.

Yerba Buena SX80: provide connections and continuity, take advantage of the base setting and ensure that the public access is compatible with wildlife.

Yerba Buena SX80: So

Yerba Buena SX80: share my screen with the questions

Yerba Buena SX80: that we have for tonight.

Yerba Buena SX80: and it’s which sections are essential for a review, and are there report? Are the reports missing any information or analysis that is critical, to reviewing the proposed designs?

Yerba Buena SX80: What sections are less helpful or non-essential.

Yerba Buena SX80: And do you have recommendations for where framing of a project information could be improved?

Yerba Buena SX80: Is the current board question section effective in guiding discussion, or are more pointed questions helpful to better steer the review?

Yerba Buena SX80: And does the report format effectively present the relevant information?

Yerba Buena SX80: Our paragraphs are listed are.

Yerba Buena SX80: are paragraphs or lists preferred? And does integrating graphics into the report help hinder? Or is a reference to the relevant exhibit document sufficient

Yerba Buena SX80: with that

Yerba Buena SX80: just to get us more focused.

Yerba Buena SX80: on this. You sent 3 examples around of 3,

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, reviews. I’m I’m sure everyone’s, you know, scroll through them. And I’m thinking, particularly people who may not have been on the board for that long. It’s sort of helpful to see different examples. But could you provide some context on why you selected those 3 because they they do have. In my mind they had different there were different points in a process, or they were, there were certain characteristics that

Yerba Buena SX80: determine some of the content of that report or the level of detail. So maybe you could just explain to us why you pick those 3 and what they represent? Yeah. So 2 of them were from January 2024. One was for Depave Park in Alameda, and the second was for 1,301 Shoreway in Belmont.

Yerba Buena SX80: And those 2 projects being more recent examples of what the template is we’re using now.

Yerba Buena SX80: I thought it was appropriate to use those more recent reports.

Yerba Buena SX80: but they also, like the Dupa Park, was a Brit project, the Bay Right

Yerba Buena SX80: Resource regulatory integration team. So they concentrate on

Yerba Buena SX80: habitat restoration projects

Yerba Buena SX80: that receive measure, Aa funding, and

Yerba Buena SX80: their objective is much more

Yerba Buena SX80: restoration of the Bay resources and wetlands. And then how the public access kind of fits into that, without that well or in light of that wildlife compatibility, requirement.

Yerba Buena SX80: I also thought it was a well written report that

Yerba Buena SX80: went into a lot of detail. And so I was using that as the end of the spectrum of like.

Yerba Buena SX80: I know that the permit analyst spent a lot of time on that report.

Yerba Buena SX80: and so just highlighting what sections may

Yerba Buena SX80: be essential or like

Yerba Buena SX80: may not be as essential, and the 13 0. 1 Shoreway was an example of the Life Science Campuses in San Mateo that we’ve seen

Yerba Buena SX80: numerous examples of over the last few years, and so it was just another example of that. And then the 3rd project was from 2,008, and it was the exploratorium, and it was an example of one of the staff reports that were written before the climate change and social equity or environmental justice, social equity policies came online. And so it was much briefer. I believe it was 8 pages no, maybe even shorter than that. After I did the formatting.

Yerba Buena SX80: And so

Yerba Buena SX80: I wanted to use that as an example of what had been done in the past, and see if you had a reaction of whether or not that report gave you guys sufficient information to have

Yerba Buena SX80: like a quality assessment and review of it. Yup.

Yerba Buena SX80: okay, that’s that’s that’s good. That’s helpful. And for the benefit of everyone who’s online. And some of the newer members of the Board. The comment that was submitted by Andrea Gaffney. Andrea is not necessarily really known to everybody. So maybe you can just put Andrea in context what her role was, and

Yerba Buena SX80: and

Yerba Buena SX80: you know she made some, I think, quite clear points that I think are worthwhile

Yerba Buena SX80: taking into consideration.

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah, so for those newer members of the board, Andrea Gaffney is the former Dr. B. Secretary. She was on staff from 2016 till 2022, I think, she finished up in at the end of 2022

Yerba Buena SX80: and she helped initiate some of the report or the

Yerba Buena SX80: new template for the stock reports to incorporate those new policies of climate change and the social equity and the community community vulnerability sections because she thought it

Yerba Buena SX80: fleshed out

Yerba Buena SX80: the background of what was informing the designs, or where we could ask questions, and probably or and respond and provide feedback in the context of the greater planning effort.

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay, thanks for that. And just before we open it up, I’m just being a bit of a hog here. But just so everyone can understand

Yerba Buena SX80: the level of

Yerba Buena SX80: effort required for a report. You said that one of the reports, the staff put deployment analysts put a lot of time. Into what? What do you mean by a lot of time, is it? You know? A couple of days, or

Yerba Buena SX80: I think it is a couple of days. So I think on so for me, personally, on average, to draft a page of text kind of no matter what it is, it’s probably at least an hour. But in addition to that, there’s like the review of the exhibits, there’s also the research depending on the site. The complexity can vary from like project to project, I would say, like

Yerba Buena SX80: like a pretty straightforward project on like a site with not a long permit. History. Is like a much quicker experience than something like, say, the ferry building, where we had to sort through like 10 different permits. And try to like find the records of like the exhibits. And what happened in which cases, and coordinate with the permit.

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah, with the permitty to like, make sure that we were on the same page about what different things! Said and then

Yerba Buena SX80: on top of that, there’s like the reviewing between, like, you know, once Staff is like drafted something. Then their supervisor, and and Ashley, the Board secretary, like, will review provide comments, and so on. So it is like

Yerba Buena SX80: I would say I don’t know.

Yerba Buena SX80: probably like at least like a week’s worth of just like solid work. But then you would expect that to be interspersed among like a number of other obligations. They have. No, that’s very helpful. And and then I think, Andrew mentioned that the report itself is something that then helps you as you’re writing up the permit. So the content of that report is useful for

Yerba Buena SX80: for the

Yerba Buena SX80: further work you know that you need to do. Yeah. The best case scenario is that we can take the project description

Yerba Buena SX80: from

Yerba Buena SX80: the report. And like some of the research that we’ve done and like copy that for the most part into our like project description and the permit.

Yerba Buena SX80: So it is nice when, like kind of the structure can parallel like what we need to use it for without having to like, do a lot of doctoring and like. Sometimes, you know, the project does change between the time, you know, we describe it to you. And then the time that we’re going to describe it to commission but ideally like those changes are like pretty easy to target.

Yerba Buena SX80: We also use the the meeting summaries to help with a little bit of that discussion about what the board covered. But I think that’s not what we’re talking about right now. Yeah, that’s super helpful. Thank you. Can I? Can I follow up on that? Yes, it leads into a question I had. One of the things I’m wondering is

Yerba Buena SX80: the the information that the project applicant or proponent

Yerba Buena SX80: provide? Is it

Yerba Buena SX80: typically sufficient, or is there a lot of time bringing them up to speed

Yerba Buena SX80: to get you what you need?

Yerba Buena SX80: I would say. It’s usually the impet. It varies even in like kind of the best cases where they provide a lot of information. You know, the details are all there. But it’s not

Yerba Buena SX80: presented in a way that we would present it to you. You know it is like a little bit more. You know the way that they think about. It is different from the way that Staff would think about it, and the way that they might describe something might be maybe a little bit more like positive, or like flowery, or like marketing sort of speech. And that is like kind of, you know, just the way that a lot of developers in particular, like will approach.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, sharing information about a project. And so a lot of times like, even if they have provided a lot of really good information. We have to kind of winnow through and kind of pull out any sort of like

Yerba Buena SX80: I guess

Yerba Buena SX80: is language and then also kind of formatted into kind of a more like regulatory framework. And and what about the the recent add ons the climate change, seal, verizon adaptation, social equity, environmental justice, for the, I think, are the ones

Yerba Buena SX80: I I would expect that some people.

Yerba Buena SX80: applicants and their consultants may or may not be totally up to speed on

Yerba Buena SX80: the sea level rise scenarios, or you know, anyway, the where I’m going with that is

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, as Andrea’s Gaffney’s comments pointed out. It seems that there, there are a lot of extra things that have to be addressed, and some of these are kind of new

Yerba Buena SX80: to everyone.

Yerba Buena SX80: And so I think it’s understandable that it takes time to go through all that.

Yerba Buena SX80: Before it gets to us. And I I think that’s really useful

Yerba Buena SX80: for for me, anyway?

Yerba Buena SX80: and it but I am I? My question then, more specifically, would be, is there a way to

Yerba Buena SX80: provide some sort of checklist or kind of example, or excuse me, example, or something like that for applicants.

Yerba Buena SX80: so that they can get you what you need in in a better format that that’s more work that nobody has time to do. But I’m just wondering if

Yerba Buena SX80: if that’s anyway, you don’t have to answer your question. Yeah, I mean, I would say that. I I do know that there are some staff who have, like kind of done their best to provide just the template to the applicants and just ask them to like. Put in your version of what this says like of like a previous staff report or something like that. One of the things that like for me when I,

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, read something like that, I do sometimes wonder, you know, is this covering all the unique aspects of this project like, if we had kind of come towards this with like a little bit of a blank, more like a blank slate mentality like, how would we like? How would we have pulled out what the key information was like? How might we have prioritized the information for you versus how they? I appreciate that. That’s a good Qc, kind of yeah. You want to make sure you

Yerba Buena SX80: you’ve looked at it yourself. Yeah, no, I appreciate it, thank you. Well, what I’d suggest is, maybe we could bring those questions up that you pose. But I’d like to maybe structure this by having each person

Yerba Buena SX80: provide

Yerba Buena SX80: their perspective on how they, how useful, what what parts of the reports are most useful, I mean, the reports are very useful documents. I mean, they’re great. We put a lot of work into them, and we really appreciate it. But you know what are the parts of the documents that are most helpful to you, and also given the context that you have a proponent

Yerba Buena SX80: presentation as well that you know you take into account. But and I thought I’d just like to start. This is great because we have some newer board members, and we’ve got some people who’ve been around for a long time, so I think it might be very helpful to just go through the

Yerba Buena SX80: old timers first, st because they’ve lived these reports for many years, and you can be really honest about

Yerba Buena SX80: how you know how, what the parts of the reports you tend to focus on. Gary. I’m going to ask you to start, Tom, follow Stefan to follow that, and then we’ll go to Larry. Patricia. Cody, you know. Then, of course, Bob.

Yerba Buena SX80: you’re sort of in the middle, Bob, I sort of think of you as a newer member. Yeah, okay, okay. So Gary.

Yerba Buena SX80: hey, Gary, if you want to just provide your reflections on the material that’s being presented tonight. Yeah, okay? Sure. Yeah. I I think the staff reports are fantastic. I’ve never thought that they were overdone or boring, or there are parts that were not useful. I think sometimes it takes

Yerba Buena SX80: 30 or 45 min to go through them, but I wouldn’t go through them. If I thought, you know that

Yerba Buena SX80: I could skip over it. I think there is some redundancy in going through the rules. There are certain things that recur in every report, and that’s that’s fine. I think it’s a good reference. That’s the only redundancy I can think of, which is, which is super minor. I

Yerba Buena SX80: so just some of the things that have been mentioned, the pre-development history

Yerba Buena SX80: I think that’s crucial. You know, I like to go back to redevelopment times, because we really want to know whether that site was at one time in the bay.

Yerba Buena SX80: or whether it was on a creek with a culvert underneath, or now or I mean, when you’re looking at a site, you just, you know, a parking lot or a you know, a office complex on on the bay, surrounded by parking

Yerba Buena SX80: you. You need to know about the hydrology and the soils, I think, in order to evaluate what’s being presented.

Yerba Buena SX80: So

Yerba Buena SX80: along with that, the you know, the social vulnerability aspect, I think it’s kind of the same thing. I mean. You can say, Oh, this is their social vulnerability here, based on these kind of objective standards. But you know, I think, having some context and some history about what that neighborhood was traditionally, and how it’s evolved is also really important in evaluating the vulnerability. You know whether these are long time residents, whether this is a new community which has just popped up in the last, you know, 10 or 15 years or something.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think that’s really good.

Yerba Buena SX80: I’ll comment on Depave Park. I thought that was exemplary.

Yerba Buena SX80: Obviously it was a huge site in a really prominent location.

Yerba Buena SX80: so it was deserving of a of a lot of work. I mean, I don’t think it was overdone at all. You had

Yerba Buena SX80: great site, a great applicant, a great client, and and a great design team who is at their best on this type of site, and that seems like an opportunity that was seized to, you know, really demonstrate a precedent setting project. So

Yerba Buena SX80: I really enjoyed that. I just thought there was no left in that at all. And we did go on for a couple of hours at least on that. And I. And that’s because there was an incredible amount of useful information there, I mean,

Yerba Buena SX80: in terms of how long it takes to write a staff report. I mean, I couldn’t imagine writing one of those reports in a couple of days. I thought you were. Gonna say, you know, one to 2 weeks or something. I think it depends on, you know, when I write something you have to cross check, you know. Sometimes it takes 20 min to write a sentence, because you have to, you know, check the terminology and make sure what you’re writing is truly accurate, and get on chat gpt, and all that. So

Yerba Buena SX80: seems efficient.

Yerba Buena SX80: I I think that. There’s an interesting point to cover the unique aspects of the project, instead of those that are applicable to all projects which you just kind of get to know after a while.

Yerba Buena SX80: So.

Yerba Buena SX80: in terms of the questions that you put forward, I think the questions that we’re supposed to address are pretty much the same on every project I think they could be should be different, for every project they could be more pointed, they could be more focused. And you know the

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah, the repetitive stuff will probably pick up.

Yerba Buena SX80: Interesting. You mentioned the exploratorium, which was I was on for 10 years, and it’s an epic project that deserved a lot of attention. And you’re saying that the staff reports were were very brief or we were. You’re looking at. One report in

Yerba Buena SX80: in particular, are

Yerba Buena SX80: It was the 1st review of the new exploratorium, I mean, there were many, many, and there were probably a lot before I ever attended, but that was an incredibly complex

Yerba Buena SX80: project, deserving of, of probably more more attention than it got. I thought the approvals sailed through pretty easily, and

Yerba Buena SX80: I don’t know how much time was spent on what was going on below the deck

Yerba Buena SX80: of the exploratorium. Here there are massive, massive

Yerba Buena SX80: pile caps, an unbelievable amount of concrete that was poured in the 4 corners of Pier 15. In order to stabilize that site.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think hundreds and hundreds of pilings, each one with a with a name and a personality, and a and a renovation schedule

Yerba Buena SX80: for it, and and that you know, I think that

Yerba Buena SX80: there’s probably a lot more that the Board could have dug into there, maybe in terms of how it affected the bay, and you know, I think there’s a lot of things that I never discussed, but like I said I missed.

Yerba Buena SX80: You know I wasn’t there for everything.

Yerba Buena SX80: and that was a long time ago, right? That was opened in 2013. I think so started in

Yerba Buena SX80: 1990.

Yerba Buena SX80: I don’t know

Yerba Buena SX80: 5 or something like that. So.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think that’s pretty much it. I think the sea Level Rise information is really really good projecting to the 100 year scenario.

Yerba Buena SX80: Always look at that very carefully. So

Yerba Buena SX80: that’s it for me. Yeah.

Yerba Buena SX80: Good call.

Yerba Buena SX80: Tom. Yeah, I have a question. Who has access to these reports besides Staff and Dr. B,

Yerba Buena SX80: they’re posted to the website. Anybody can. Anyone can obtain them? They’re part of the public record. Has there ever been an instance of somebody disputing

Yerba Buena SX80: something in the report, or having an issue or a problem

Yerba Buena SX80: for the left for the public or components, it will occasionally come up with project components. When something has been reviewed

Yerba Buena SX80: 10 or 15 years before

Yerba Buena SX80: the site has changed and been developed over time.

Yerba Buena SX80: and then

Yerba Buena SX80: people will have a varied memory of what was considered and proposed in front of the Drb. And so we do revisit old staff reports and old exhibits to go back and excavate

Yerba Buena SX80: some of the rationale reasoning and decisions, so forth, as context to what they’re

Yerba Buena SX80: placing their judgments on top of

Yerba Buena SX80: correct, got it? Got it? Okay?

Yerba Buena SX80: And then also, in permit findings, there will be some discussion sometimes about what the Dr. B. Discussed related to a project, and what the priorities in the design were, and if there is

Yerba Buena SX80: a disagreement on the significance of certain amenities or certain design decisions. We can go back to those findings as well.

Yerba Buena SX80: well, especially for that reason, I think, is important to these

Yerba Buena SX80: reports to be complete, and they are very complete, and I don’t think I would want them to ever not

Yerba Buena SX80: be complete.

Yerba Buena SX80: And

Yerba Buena SX80: I think the only thing I would.

Yerba Buena SX80: Brace, I guess I mean I I come out. I’m I’m always. I’ll be honest. The afternoon Monday afternoon comes, and oh, oh.

Yerba Buena SX80: I got about an hour and a half here. Better get to it right? So I’m only, and I’m skimming through certain things, and I’m reading carefully. Other parts seem significant.

Yerba Buena SX80: And then trying to get to the exhibits and then go back, check back and forth, and the parts that I don’t spend very much time on usually are when you have to cite a chapter in verse on policy. They they policy. I just take for granted that that

Yerba Buena SX80: I mean, I suppose I should register.

Yerba Buena SX80: I always look at the questions that are raised at the end.

Yerba Buena SX80: And I

Yerba Buena SX80: I guess, the only possible. I think I think all the information that goes in there, the facts that go into it are all essential

Yerba Buena SX80: to understanding. But is it possible to use, make use of

Yerba Buena SX80: introductory paragraph

Yerba Buena SX80: with a list of bullet points out for more frequently, I suppose, and would it be possible at the beginning to have a paragraph that states the

Yerba Buena SX80: special significance

Yerba Buena SX80: on this project. What it is about this project that

Yerba Buena SX80: is different from from the other ones. You may have been seeing or seeing in this meeting

Yerba Buena SX80: kind of helps you get a

Yerba Buena SX80: get your teeth around what

Yerba Buena SX80: bite into. But

Yerba Buena SX80: so I only would suggest that maybe

Yerba Buena SX80: I mean, I think you’ve got to put the

Yerba Buena SX80: the policy chapters in there right? You can’t. You can’t just put a link

Yerba Buena SX80: to to go out to go off documents somewhere else, so it needs to be there and

Yerba Buena SX80: whether it’s possible to do the whole report with introduction, paragraph, and a list of bullet points.

Yerba Buena SX80: whether it would save time over composing grammatically correct full paragraphs. I don’t know the question for you guys.

Yerba Buena SX80: And if you could scan through a

Yerba Buena SX80: through a list of bullet points. It might be quicker.

Yerba Buena SX80: I don’t know. I I think it’s more more important, really, that it’s it’s it’s working for you for staff.

Yerba Buena SX80: Honestly, I mean, I I know how I use these, not probably not gonna change that much, but

Yerba Buena SX80: I find them useful from that standpoint, and

Yerba Buena SX80: this they gotta be complete if anybody’s gonna be researching for their proponents are going through looking for.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, inaccurate or incomplete

Yerba Buena SX80: aspects, things.

Yerba Buena SX80: documents they’re going to subscribe to.

Yerba Buena SX80: That’s it.

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay, Stefan, let’s

Yerba Buena SX80: go to you for your reflections.

Stefan Pellegrini: Thank you.

Stefan Pellegrini: Jacinta.

Stefan Pellegrini: I guess I’m an old timer now.

Stefan Pellegrini: I think

Stefan Pellegrini: just not to try to sort of repeat the things that Tom and Gary have mentioned, but I think the

Stefan Pellegrini: the complexity of the staff reports

Stefan Pellegrini: is

Stefan Pellegrini: useful, because primarily, I think what we’re being asked to do

Stefan Pellegrini: is, provide

Stefan Pellegrini: judgment

Stefan Pellegrini: around.

Stefan Pellegrini: I’ll say the sufficiency.

Stefan Pellegrini: or the adequacy, or the appropriateness of the applicant’s response.

Stefan Pellegrini: And

Stefan Pellegrini: all of that, I think it requires

Stefan Pellegrini: all the things that we’ve mentioned.

Stefan Pellegrini: an understanding of the background, the history.

Stefan Pellegrini: the Ej issues now, and the Slr issues

Stefan Pellegrini: that are sort of helping to inform this decision. And sometimes I think that has to do with

Stefan Pellegrini: is the project acceptable now

Stefan Pellegrini: and then. Sometimes we’re sort of asked to opine on

Stefan Pellegrini: what conditions of approval will make this project

Stefan Pellegrini: suitable in the future

Stefan Pellegrini: right? Because we sort of get into these situations of the shoreline, shifting the public access, changing over the life of the project.

Stefan Pellegrini: So I think that that our ability to make those decisions in one meeting

Stefan Pellegrini: kind of relies on a pretty extensive

Stefan Pellegrini: staff report.

Stefan Pellegrini: I can see a situation where

Stefan Pellegrini: we’ve an initial review would be more about us asking questions. To then figure out what judgment calls. We need to make.

Stefan Pellegrini: and that sort of

Stefan Pellegrini: the public piece of that getting stretched out longer in the absence of that sort of background information that staff is sort of providing upfront, but I think the energy behind the staff report is what is

Stefan Pellegrini: allowing most

Stefan Pellegrini: most of these situations were able to provide direction

Stefan Pellegrini: on projects where, if they are coming back.

Stefan Pellegrini: it’s to understand their ability to respond to our direction

Stefan Pellegrini: as opposed to saying, You know, just come back down the road again, and let us look at it again when it’s more developed.

Stefan Pellegrini: with sort of a lack of sort of objective guidance. And I really think that sort of goes back to the

Stefan Pellegrini: The strength of the staff. Report.

Stefan Pellegrini: I will say that.

Stefan Pellegrini: I I don’t.

Stefan Pellegrini: because we are being asked to

Stefan Pellegrini: Peter.

Stefan Pellegrini: I’m gonna I’m gonna speak from like my perspective. I I think I’m the architect on the board or one of the architects on the board. So I think sometimes Staff is asking us.

Stefan Pellegrini: are there creative or alternative strategies to what the applicant is proposing

Stefan Pellegrini: that should be considered

Stefan Pellegrini: regarding these questions of

Stefan Pellegrini: sufficiency, adequacy, appropriateness.

Stefan Pellegrini: and I think we, as designers, understand how to respond to that. But we’re not always asked that directly.

Stefan Pellegrini: We’re sort of asked to kind of

Stefan Pellegrini: bring our professional expertise and perspective, which is different for everyone on this board.

Stefan Pellegrini: To sort of providing that information. I think another thing that comes up in my mind often, too, is that

Stefan Pellegrini: there’s conditions on a lot of these projects where the priorities

Stefan Pellegrini: or the questions around. What should be prioritized is not clear.

Stefan Pellegrini: like different user groups.

Stefan Pellegrini: Where do you sort of tip the scale or way in terms of how space is being used and managed?

Stefan Pellegrini: And they’re asking for our judgment

Stefan Pellegrini: on that

Stefan Pellegrini: based on sort of our professional expertise.

Stefan Pellegrini: I think my experience has been that

Stefan Pellegrini: I had to learn

Stefan Pellegrini: what Staff was asking or what I thought they were really asking.

Stefan Pellegrini: because the questions come in the form of

Stefan Pellegrini: they come in the frame of planning policy.

Stefan Pellegrini: But we are asked. We are basically asked to answer in a language of design.

Stefan Pellegrini: and that for me, I had to watch

Stefan Pellegrini: the my predecessors and understand how they were interacting with the board. And then I sort of picked up on that. And probably I think all of us have taken that in our own direction.

Stefan Pellegrini: But I think I’m most interested in how the newer board members

Stefan Pellegrini: sort of interpret these questions.

Stefan Pellegrini: and they are direct enough

Stefan Pellegrini: in terms of sort of asking the needs of sort of what they want to get out of them, because I think from my perspective, it came out of this like institutional.

Stefan Pellegrini: just repetition

Stefan Pellegrini: of being able to sort of infuse, I think, to Staff. I think sometimes you’ll see me ask you, is this what you’re asking here? Because it’s sort of not 100% clear. But we have a process where

Stefan Pellegrini: that is actually all

Stefan Pellegrini: are workable.

Stefan Pellegrini: Right? We don’t run end up at an impasse, or in a situation where we can’t ask those questions. And so I don’t see that as a problem

Stefan Pellegrini: a lot of this in my mind would

Stefan Pellegrini: like the other thing that would make the staff report simpler

Stefan Pellegrini: would be the application of more objective guidance.

Stefan Pellegrini: And so, if the Bay plan, if the if the if the public wrong policies were more objectively oriented.

Stefan Pellegrini: there would be less space for us to be actually

Stefan Pellegrini: inputting our judgment.

Stefan Pellegrini: But we have a situation where

Stefan Pellegrini: the design guidelines are very subjective.

Stefan Pellegrini: And so there’s there’s there’s a need for us to sort of do what we’re doing.

Stefan Pellegrini: The other layer. To that. I think that I think everybody recognizes that the things that are

Stefan Pellegrini: that we are asked to consider

Stefan Pellegrini: it is incredibly difficult for to objectify those things.

Stefan Pellegrini: and so we’re looking at questions of

Stefan Pellegrini: timing what we should weigh when there are environmental justice issues. This questions about adequacy in my mind are not objective. And so the Bay, the the Desired View Board, is

Stefan Pellegrini: providing a very useful

Stefan Pellegrini: role in sort of helping

Stefan Pellegrini: to direct that.

Stefan Pellegrini: and that all I think sort of goes back to the basis that’s provided

Stefan Pellegrini: the extensive basis is actually provided in the staff report.

Stefan Pellegrini: I’m gonna stop there.

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah, thanks, Stefan. Super helpful. Let’s just keep going. I I just wanna make sure that everyone

Yerba Buena SX80: can provide some. Input. And then we can talk further. Leo, why don’t we go to you? Yeah.

Yerba Buena SX80: sure. Thank you. Maybe before I dive into, I do have one follow up question, which is, it sounds like you’re using the report in other for other purposes. Writing permits other settings. Are there other uses of the report that are

Yerba Buena SX80: important.

Yerba Buena SX80: Well, I guess it’s you know, once it’s out there, like as a public record, there are, like many different reasons why we might go back to look at a report. And so yeah, yes, we

Yerba Buena SX80: every with every staff report, especially if we have multiple

Yerba Buena SX80: sessions on a single project. Like that, information might get built upon, built upon, built upon, so that we can use it to share information about the project with other people on staff. So if we do an internal presentation, we might use some of that information again. To help bring other people up to speed.

Yerba Buena SX80: we might share some of this information with like partners or other agencies that are working on the same project, so that they have the information that we have

Yerba Buena SX80: we might use it for the application summary that goes out to the commission ahead of the meeting where they consider the project, and in the draft of the permit, which is the staff recommendation that we share with them when they vote

Yerba Buena SX80: and then, as Ashley was saying, when we go back

Yerba Buena SX80: to kind of see like well, what was the intent behind like.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know? Why? Why do we think this condition was written this way or like, why, did this

Yerba Buena SX80: part of the project end up looking like this? Or you know that where there might be some questions later on, might. Something feels a little vague like we use it for research, and then also, you know, to train staff. I think one of the things. Maybe, that we haven’t mentioned yet is that and this is very true for me personally is writing. The staff report is one of the ways that staff becomes really familiar with the project.

Yerba Buena SX80: because that is like maybe one of the 1st times that they’re really asked to sit down and explain it in detail to another person. And start actually thinking through some of the you know questions that they might have to answer. When you know they go up, you know, in front of our other staff, or like other or the Commission, and so on. So

Yerba Buena SX80: it does serve like a number of different

Yerba Buena SX80: purposes. I think everything we do. We try to

Yerba Buena SX80: multitask as much as possible.

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah. And and that might be something that

Yerba Buena SX80: might have not been fully considered when

Yerba Buena SX80: the drive for efficiency was being brought up was that there is actually a lot of uses for this which is terrific.

Yerba Buena SX80: I’ll maybe as as a sort of interim tenure person, I’ll just say that, having sat on other boards of public commissions, etc.

Yerba Buena SX80: the thoroughness, these reports are very, very impressive, and I as a new newer board member, I found them incredibly helpful

Yerba Buena SX80: to

Yerba Buena SX80: focus in on what are the issues? What are the questions before us. I think one of the things that is perhaps unique about

Yerba Buena SX80: this particular design Review Board is that what we’re looking to is.

Yerba Buena SX80: in addition to overall design. Excellence, I think, is really a complex set of regulations and master plans and policies and guidelines. I mean, there’s it’s not like we’re sitting down in front of the planning commission and referring to the planning code.

Yerba Buena SX80: Right? It’s there. There’s a lot of of underlying

Yerba Buena SX80: regulations and policies that we’re trying to make sure that the design solution is providing the best solution. For

Yerba Buena SX80: so I think

Yerba Buena SX80: the thoroughness of the report is incredibly helpful in that because it otherwise, it’s it’s a lot of lot of information, for I think anybody to try and sift through and organize and understand.

Yerba Buena SX80: that said, I think.

Yerba Buena SX80: one of the things is. There’s probably sort of 3 layers of information, I think, in the reports, which is one are that are sort of the simple quantitative aspects of the project. Where is it? How big is it? What is it involved? Right? And then? The second, what category might be the quantitative elements that are in the codes. So

Yerba Buena SX80: public access. How is that being supported? And then the qualitative ones that are perhaps harder to PIN down, and really require judgment and experience and a particular design viewpoint.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think it’s. And so for me.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think that

Yerba Buena SX80: I do wonder if some of the

Yerba Buena SX80: basic facts of the project could be something that could be

Yerba Buena SX80: almost set into a form, that is.

Yerba Buena SX80: every applicant is expected to fill out and put on Page one of their documents, and we could read it.

Yerba Buena SX80: save that’s probably the easy part of the report for you guys, so probably doesn’t save a lot of time.

Yerba Buena SX80: I do think that the idea of

Yerba Buena SX80: more of a intro paragraph and an outline.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, particularly when it comes to things like, permit history and

Yerba Buena SX80: the the existing conditions. I think. You know, those kinds of things are more factual.

Yerba Buena SX80: Again, outline

Yerba Buena SX80: form probably be easier actually for you to produce and us to digest

Yerba Buena SX80: and then

Yerba Buena SX80: and then really focus on. I think, the the analysis, the regulatory analysis. I think that’s where I I have found the report to be most helpful that is in understanding what is being

Yerba Buena SX80: really what is being proposed? And does it meet the expectations. And and you know those where the questions often tied to so so you know, I don’t know if there’s

Yerba Buena SX80: this is very specific. But you know, for example, there’s this proposed project

Yerba Buena SX80: descriptions.

Yerba Buena SX80: And then there’s the commission plans, policies, and guidelines, and

Yerba Buena SX80: I almost

Yerba Buena SX80: I mean it. It’s so clear right now, I’m sort of reluctant to suggest anything specific. But I am. I am curious at some point. Maybe

Yerba Buena SX80: if there are thoughts from those who write them

Yerba Buena SX80: of of areas that you think

Yerba Buena SX80: might be ways of streamlining the the writing without losing the content.

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah. But

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah, I like, I said, I, I’ve I’ve found this to be incredibly helpful.

Yerba Buena SX80: Thanks, Larry. Okay, let’s keep going here, Patricia. I do want to.

Yerba Buena SX80: weigh in.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Yes. Hello, everyone, thank you.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: I do have a question before I start.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: in the examples provided and on the

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: on the reviews I’ve been on. There’s reference of the exhibits themselves. Are we to assume that those

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: are separate from

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: a staff report.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: or are you considering them as part of the staff report.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: I guess this is for Ashley or one of the staff members.

Yerba Buena SX80: They are both separate, and the same

Yerba Buena SX80: report relies on the exhibits to be graphic representation of what the narrative is stating.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think most of the people in this room relate better to graphics than they do to long paragraphs.

Yerba Buena SX80: just an assumption on my part.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Throughout.

Yerba Buena SX80: But it it. The exhibits are produced by the project proponent, and then, when Staff are writing the reports where there is an exhibit that illustrates what the writing is trying to state.

Yerba Buena SX80: It will reference that exhibit. And usually there’s a link, and it will go back and forth.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Right

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: right? And and my comment is very, Oh, go ahead.

Yerba Buena SX80: No, I think, keep going. Okay. Patricia. Yeah.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Yes, my comment is very much related to that, because as a reviewer, I find myself obviously going back and forth between

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: the the written staff report and the exhibits themselves.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: there’s a question as to whether the graphics included are helpful, and those, I guess, are technically.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: you know, labeled as figures that are in the staff report itself not, and they’re not directing the reviewer to go to the

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: to the exhibits.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: But I do wonder if

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: there are more key graphics that are included in the staff report as figures.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Because

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: you know by nature, because it is a design review.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: then those graphics are essential.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: And

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: yes, I’m I’m 1 of the newer members. And so I I do appreciate how much context is is given in the staff report and definitely agree with

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: lot of the comments made today about how thorough they are. I think my comments are. If if there is an interest in

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: finding efficiencies.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: then I would maybe suggest if some of the graphics or the exhibits themselves are doing the work.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: and so to consider whether the redundancy of the written

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: description of what the graphics are explaining is actually needed.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: again, that’s assuming that the graphics from the proponent are very clear.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: and you know.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: thoughtfully developed. And so I can understand that maybe the description helps provide a little more. If if that’s not the case.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: and I I would also add that

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: I I agree with Tom on on also in the interest of of efficiency. If

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: if bullet points are

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: a really great way of being able to

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: force a summarized version of what goes in the staff report?

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: But really, when you’re getting to maybe some of the items that are included in the exhibits.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Obviously the introduction of of the project and kind of there. There does need to be a narrative. That kind of sets the stage of the project. But perhaps, as you progress in the staff report, there’s an opportunity for more bullets.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: So I would. I would agree with that?

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Finally, I do agree that the the questions are very helpful.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: and assuming that there’s

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: there’s kind of the cycle of newer members every once in a while. Then, having kind of the the habit or the good practice of of

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: of the framing questions that help guide the conversation, I think.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: are really really useful and and very helpful.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: but yeah, I think a lot of a lot of comments that I had in mind were also already mentioned.

Yerba Buena SX80: Well, thanks, Patricia, that’s actually really

Yerba Buena SX80: useful. Input I think the conversation between

Yerba Buena SX80: the exhibits, the interaction between the exhibits and the report is is an important

Yerba Buena SX80: part of what we should be providing feedback on. Cody comments.

Cody Anderson: Yeah, I’ll be. I’ll be brief

Cody Anderson: in. In my limited experience

Cody Anderson: on the board that the staff report is so

Cody Anderson: so integral to the process. It had not even occurred to me that it could be different.

Cody Anderson: and it is

Cody Anderson: absolutely what I rely on to understand the project in

Cody Anderson: thoroughly and concisely

Cody Anderson: so. I don’t really have any suggestions for improvements, but I’ll also just mention, you know, times when I’ve been on the consultant side.

Cody Anderson: I think the

Cody Anderson: The staff report, especially for

Cody Anderson: new or less experienced applicants.

Cody Anderson: establishes a

Cody Anderson: kind of a level of thoroughness and professionalism

Cody Anderson: that might be attention catching

Cody Anderson: for people who

Cody Anderson: maybe didn’t.

Cody Anderson: We’re under prepared

Cody Anderson: for the process of going through Bcbc. And in in that regard I think it’s it’s really positive to have such a you know, such a complete document. That’s that’s publicly available. And

Cody Anderson: and I think that people sometimes view Bcdc. As

Cody Anderson: as an obstacle or as a opponent.

Cody Anderson: And

Cody Anderson: and I think it can help change the channel when they see that the approach that’s laid out through the whole process, including the staff.

Yerba Buena SX80: Thanks. Cody.

Yerba Buena SX80: Bob, why don’t you weigh in? Give

Yerba Buena SX80: some of your thoughts? Yes, thank you.

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah. I also, for some reason, didn’t think that the staff reports

Yerba Buena SX80: might be modified or should be changed. I kind of looked at them as

Yerba Buena SX80: the staff’s

Yerba Buena SX80: perspective on the project, and that’s who I thought we were. I think that we’re

Yerba Buena SX80: here to help as well as well as the applicant

Yerba Buena SX80: and I also

Yerba Buena SX80: anticipated that there were discussions between the applicant and the staff, and so that it was

Yerba Buena SX80: actually, you know, a really good thing for us to have, and what was emphasized

Yerba Buena SX80: or not emphasized, was

Yerba Buena SX80: in in a way, guidance for us.

Yerba Buena SX80: even though you know I’m

Yerba Buena SX80: I think we all always look for things that might be missing, or that kind of thing. So I actually like the reports. I think they’re good

Yerba Buena SX80: and I want to shift gears a little bit and actually suggest something that

Yerba Buena SX80: I would like to see in addition, which is probably not what anyone wants to hear. But

Yerba Buena SX80: one of the things I’ve been struggling with is

Yerba Buena SX80: historically, we’ve looked at fixed property lines and zonings and developments and stuff, and

Yerba Buena SX80: but with sea level rise the bay is moving. The hazards are moving.

Yerba Buena SX80: The ecology, the habitats are moving.

Yerba Buena SX80: and people are gonna move sooner or later, or the other, or upper end, or something, or do something. So. But the

Yerba Buena SX80: what? What I’m missing in these

Yerba Buena SX80: is, what are the future conditions within the planning horizon?

Yerba Buena SX80: And

Yerba Buena SX80: we do get some of that. And I think the staff uses what’s available.

Yerba Buena SX80: And so I think the problem I have is is a bigger problem, one that no one’s really provided. It’s you know, the the shore atlas is helpful. The

Yerba Buena SX80: subtitle goals and wetlands, goals and all the planning documents are helpful to the extent they’re looked at.

Yerba Buena SX80: And so we get what we can. But but fundamentally, we have a problem where we’re looking at a site, we have a hundred foot shore, and

Yerba Buena SX80: if they don’t, if the developer, whoever doesn’t encroach on that 100 foot shore.

Yerba Buena SX80: they’re certainly going to try to put all the all the shore. Parallel access in there, and the shore may be completely arbitrary.

Yerba Buena SX80: Have nothing to do with natural processes might just be something somebody did a hundred or 200 years ago, and filled it with God knows what.

Yerba Buena SX80: And then, if you put the bay trail there, which is this concrete thing, you have to armor it and protect it for a hundred year event and all that. So we’re basically we’re not adapting.

Yerba Buena SX80: really. And the adaptation plan is well, we’ll build a wall higher, and we’ll lift the trail, or you know, whatever somebody will fix it for us or I. So I I’m I’m not being negative. I don’t think but I’m just pointing out that I think the sea Level Rise

Yerba Buena SX80: component is

Yerba Buena SX80: a game changer, and it it needs even more attention.

Yerba Buena SX80: Whereas I think the 7 public access objectives

Yerba Buena SX80: are not contrary to that, but could all be informed by that

Yerba Buena SX80: the other, the social access, I mean social

Yerba Buena SX80: and other social issues, I think, kind of fall into that as well into that as well, and and are in a way the sea level rise in climate change is an opportunity to kind of redevelop things.

Yerba Buena SX80: reimagine things

Yerba Buena SX80: hard to do on a parcel level. But then, now we’re talking about this regional and sub regional

Yerba Buena SX80: planning.

Yerba Buena SX80: I’d like to see a little bit more about. What municipalities policies are.

Yerba Buena SX80: We’ve been confronted with that recently.

Yerba Buena SX80: With one or more cities that have sea level rise policies. And

Yerba Buena SX80: and then, you know, there’s 1 or more flood control agencies which usually our county, which is different than the city

Yerba Buena SX80: that have

Yerba Buena SX80: policies and

Yerba Buena SX80: bigger projects and stuff. So there’s all this other policy stuff that you know we get a document. It’s like, well, this is the policy. This is how it’s there’s, you know.

Yerba Buena SX80: So I would like to see a little bit more of that. I think that’s gonna come in.

Yerba Buena SX80: to as it becomes available as it’s addressed. As we’re all learning

Yerba Buena SX80: things that could be added. I think, a little more specifically, they are in there.

Yerba Buena SX80: and it’s gotten easier for me to review things. But

Yerba Buena SX80: is stuff like

Yerba Buena SX80: other pertinent information.

Yerba Buena SX80: the title datums in terms of a land datum like an Abd.

Yerba Buena SX80: there are different datums port of Oakland, San Francisco. They all have different day, whatever, but that that’s been better, and that’s really good. I I am interested in. And I think this is in there the ecology areas that are adjacent and

Yerba Buena SX80: the sure Atlas helps a little bit. But you know.

Yerba Buena SX80: the way I’ve always looked at things been trained to do is multiple objectives. So if a wetland exists in one place and seal rises. It’s going to want to move or it’s going to drown.

Yerba Buena SX80: so does the project accommodate that, or is the net result of the project to

Yerba Buena SX80: doom the marsh to being drowned, you know. And what

Yerba Buena SX80: is that considered? Is there a natural nature based

Yerba Buena SX80: option, or something that could be considered by the designers. So I think again, that the big picture is, you have

Yerba Buena SX80: a built challenge because the base coming up, and the water’s moving in. Groundwater’s coming up.

Yerba Buena SX80: There’s gonna be higher

Yerba Buena SX80: precipitation in Tennessee

Yerba Buena SX80: Creek flows combined, flooding all this stuff. And then there’s erosion. There’s waves which really aren’t considered in the light at this level, anyway, at this.

Yerba Buena SX80: And I don’t really see the applicants tuned into that. I think they’re focused on, and in their interest

Yerba Buena SX80: maximizing revenue on their development

Yerba Buena SX80: in their parcel.

Yerba Buena SX80: So I don’t know what all the answers are, but I I think, starting to talk about how things are changing. And there’s this fundamental conflict.

Yerba Buena SX80: which is a design challenge, especially if we’re talking about being resilient.

Yerba Buena SX80: But also it’s an opportunity. I like to think of it as redevelopment, if you will.

Yerba Buena SX80: So anyway, I I just but I really like the staff reports, and I’ve been doing this for a while, so I can look at things, have our access, so I can kind of see stuff.

Yerba Buena SX80: But I think it would be good for the applicants. Just maybe there’s some questions that they could be asked, and then maybe we can get the the San Francisco Bay

Yerba Buena SX80: through Rsap or otherwise, to start providing this information in a format that is more accessible to the staff.

Yerba Buena SX80: So that we, you know, it’s just easier as we

Yerba Buena SX80: we learn. So those are my comments. Thank you.

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah, thanks, Bob.

Yerba Buena SX80: always really insightful. I’m just going to add a couple of things. I mean, everything has basically been covered. But from

Yerba Buena SX80: from my standpoint, I I just want to

Yerba Buena SX80: pick up on context for a minute psych context. I I would say, over the years.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think. We’ve seen

Yerba Buena SX80: numerous projects where?

Yerba Buena SX80: Yeah, the the Site plan basically ends, of course, at the property line. And yet the connections for public access are are

Yerba Buena SX80: not always well handled. And

Yerba Buena SX80: so we’ve talked about this in reviews over the years. But I just think the the window for

Yerba Buena SX80: those plans, and the way in which the staff can perhaps make your life easier by making sure that the proponent probably dresses a little more context around the shoreline bands, I think, makes for a better review

Yerba Buena SX80: it. It makes it easier for everyone. But I would say the critical for me.

Yerba Buena SX80: and I have to say, been on the board a long time, and, you know, going back years when I was extremely busy with work, I didn’t always get out to the site. But in recent years I always go to the site. And I I think the material that is included which is excellent. The social and environmental context.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, other material in the report is just so much easier to interpret if you just go and take it out on site and read the report on site. And so I just

Yerba Buena SX80: would encourage everyone. If you can find the time to get out onto the site and just spend, you know.

Yerba Buena SX80: spend half an hour or an hour on site. It can. It can help a lot

Yerba Buena SX80: to sit through

Yerba Buena SX80: some quite complex materials

Yerba Buena SX80: up.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know. I think the question of policy and design I would just come back to. You know the makeup of the board is intentionally

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, structured, so that there are people who are a little more

Yerba Buena SX80: facile around policy people who are very strong on design. You know, some people more technical.

Yerba Buena SX80: Certainly the engineering with with it’s just so great to have people like, you know, Bob and Cody. And you know, it makes a big difference. And so because the issues are so complex. And what we’re looking at is challenging.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think it’s okay to say, you know.

Yerba Buena SX80: a couple of the board members we know are going to really

Yerba Buena SX80: know that issue. So and own that issue so focus on the issues where we each have our strengths. And I think that makes for a really good review. When people do that, we don’t all have to

Yerba Buena SX80: be on top of everything. But and for me.

Yerba Buena SX80: speaking personally, you know, I’ve always found the the policies are somebody I think you mentioned earlier. You know. The policies are are often.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, they’re not really specific. So you know, when you’re trying to tie them down to the project, it can be challenging, so help from Staff, you know. Maybe

Yerba Buena SX80: clarity as much clarity around. You know what policy might be particularly important to this particular project would would be helpful.

Yerba Buena SX80: I I’d say, over the years the Board questions

Yerba Buena SX80: have varied in their helpfulness. Sometimes

Yerba Buena SX80: you’d sitting there, as I think Stefan or somebody else mentioned, really

Yerba Buena SX80: trying to compose the question. That’s behind the question that is actually written in the

Yerba Buena SX80: staff questions. And and

Yerba Buena SX80: and I think sometimes

Yerba Buena SX80: if if there may be some reason why it’s

Yerba Buena SX80: crafted that way.

Yerba Buena SX80: and certainly the board. I’ve seen many instances over the years where the the staff is quite passionate about some issue related to the project, and the Board

Yerba Buena SX80: says, you know, that’s not a problem at all. And then, you know, that’s exactly how that

Yerba Buena SX80: process should work. And I don’t think that’s an issue at all. If if Staff put out something a little more specifically, you know about what concern there may be, you know, in a question, and then we

Yerba Buena SX80: can discuss it, and you know, come back, come, provide feedback. But if the questions are very clear.

Yerba Buena SX80: then we tend to just

Yerba Buena SX80: not give them much attention in the review, I think, you know, and sometimes the questions just

Yerba Buena SX80: don’t seem to match what our impressions are of the project on the night, too, so

Yerba Buena SX80: that couldn’t.

Yerba Buena SX80: So sometimes they’re spot on, and sometimes there’s, you know, some

Yerba Buena SX80: differences I think of. You know, where we would see critical questions of what would have been brought up by the staff, but regardless I’m just providing my reflections. But

Yerba Buena SX80: drafting the questions is really important. And so, you know, just making it as clear as possible in terms of the issues that you’re all concerned with.

Yerba Buena SX80: Very helpful

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, Bob, to your point about

Yerba Buena SX80: the impact of sea level rise and we talk. As you know, we’ve all talked about this. Gary, I think, was probably the 1st person to really become specific on this topic, and years ago, and

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, I think

Yerba Buena SX80: if the proponents

Yerba Buena SX80: can be encouraged to

Yerba Buena SX80: dive a bit deeper on adaptation, exactly what the options could be, you know.

Yerba Buena SX80: Could they?

Yerba Buena SX80: A trail

Yerba Buena SX80: move out of the 100 foot shoreline bands into their

Yerba Buena SX80: property?

Yerba Buena SX80: If that can work with a design, you know. Is that why not? You know, just to encourage.

Yerba Buena SX80: because you all talk to the proponents hopefully when there’s some flexibility in what they’re doing. So I you know, I think, being proactive on that

Yerba Buena SX80: topic, you know.

Yerba Buena SX80: Have you considered adaptation? And of course, with this new plan coming through, I think you know, we’ll they’ll there’ll be a lot more teeth, a lot more material for proposed things out there. But

Yerba Buena SX80: you’re right at this time, we’re basically, you know, putting up

Yerba Buena SX80: revetment more or less, you know, at the at the shoreline, increasingly doing that. And

Yerba Buena SX80: it’s not really best practice for

Yerba Buena SX80: what we’re facing in the years to come.

Yerba Buena SX80: Can. Can we discuss this just for a second? Had a comment. So you know. So, having worked on the Pacific coast quite a bit. One of the things that people work with

Yerba Buena SX80: on the on the Pacific coast is this idea of a setback.

Yerba Buena SX80: and usually the setback is a distance farther inland than you might think of

Yerba Buena SX80: constructing something now. And so you get into this concept of a maybe a rolling easement

Yerba Buena SX80: for the 100 foot shoreline ban. And, in fact, the so I understand it. I’m not a lawyer, but the

Yerba Buena SX80: the high tide line

Yerba Buena SX80: defining

Yerba Buena SX80: these boundaries

Yerba Buena SX80: is a line that moves and blocking it from moving is

Yerba Buena SX80: not necessarily a way of preventing it from moving in a legal sense. So

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah, nobody really wants to go there. Of course, there’s lots of, you know, implications and angst with that kind of thing. But

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah, I just say, the idea of a setback which is actually in one of the old documents that I guess 19

Yerba Buena SX80: 1998. Sea level rise report by Vcdc. Has a a chapter on

Yerba Buena SX80: design criteria for shore protection, and it actually shows

Yerba Buena SX80: a setback from the edge of the protection for waves and and flooding

Yerba Buena SX80: before you. You build something. So there is some linkage in the past to this idea of

Yerba Buena SX80: providing space, and that included

Yerba Buena SX80: the increase of sea level rise as part of the criteria. How you calculate that that’s more of an engineering thing. But

Yerba Buena SX80: it’s also a coastal floodplain management concept to consider future future encroachments because of the migration of

Yerba Buena SX80: of the hazard. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I just said, just throw that out there. I don’t

Yerba Buena SX80: think anyone’s prepared to

Yerba Buena SX80: necessarily talk about

Yerba Buena SX80: rolling easements and and migrating shoreline vans.

Yerba Buena SX80: but it is kind of a logical concept

Yerba Buena SX80: to consider as is as an option. I think so. I don’t know. So just throw that up there.

Yerba Buena SX80: No thanks, Bob.

Yerba Buena SX80: I look just the final point Patricia brought up. You know, the relationship between the proponent materials and the report, and I I think that was an incredibly important point. And

Yerba Buena SX80: there’s no question that when we have better proponent materials more complete, particularly in the in the, as I find in the aspects of you know how to really understand how they have arrived at some of the solutions that they’ve arrived at. You know what what they

Yerba Buena SX80: what they have

Yerba Buena SX80: thought process has been in the context of Bcdc. And and

Yerba Buena SX80: of course we all know if you’re a proponent project proponent, this is just yet another step in a very long, complicated process, and they have to come before the board, and

Yerba Buena SX80: it can be pretty frustrating and annoying for them to have to produce all the material in a way that you need it. But you’re talking to them pretty early in the process.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think, more often these days not always, but more often. We’ve talked about all of that in the past as well, but but I think encouraging the proponents to

Yerba Buena SX80: and and to even have a couple of examples of packages that

Yerba Buena SX80: you know. Address your.

Yerba Buena SX80: You know that. Go well. In terms of process, because they

Yerba Buena SX80: have addressed these sorts of, you know, fundamental aspects that

Yerba Buena SX80: we’re looking for to be able to comment effectively. I mean, I that could would be helpful to a proponent. I think.

Yerba Buena SX80: Maybe they

Yerba Buena SX80: find that material themselves, but because I think that that’s often

Yerba Buena SX80: that relationship. It can be a very good written report. The narrative can be great, but if the exhibits

Yerba Buena SX80: are a bit deficient, I remember

Yerba Buena SX80: I don’t know. Maybe 18 months ago or so there was.

Yerba Buena SX80: It was

Yerba Buena SX80: a a corporate office project. But the design exhibits were so sort of vague, even graphically, that it was very hard to read them, and that made the review quite, quite difficult. So

Yerba Buena SX80: I mean, just basic things like that. I could. And that is outside what we’re talking about specifically on the staff report. But these 2

Yerba Buena SX80: things really do need to, you know, be locked in together to make your job easier.

Yerba Buena SX80: So look, that’s I think that’s Gary. You want to add something just briefly, the longest, most difficult meetings we have are when the the exhibits are thin, and then, and the board is sitting here trying to figure out what’s going on, and it takes a long time to get there. You have to interrogate, you know. You have to ask a hundred questions.

Yerba Buena SX80: and we have like an hour of discovery sometimes before we get to the comments. So that’s the flip side of whatever it was that I think, Stefan said, that you know you need a really really detailed report in order to, you know, be able to give your response on a very important site within 5 min, you know. Essentially, we’re all speaking for 5 min. How do you condense all this information into this very concise statement? Yeah, so very good.

Yerba Buena SX80: I’m sorry. Hmm.

Yerba Buena SX80: one question.

Yerba Buena SX80: I know there’s the.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think there’s a list of materials that’s recommended for submission.

Yerba Buena SX80: Does Staff ever

Yerba Buena SX80: say to the project

Yerba Buena SX80: applicant states.

Yerba Buena SX80: The materials are inadequate, they they do not meet the standards, and therefore please resubmit.

Yerba Buena SX80: Yes, we do. Draft exhibits are usually due 45 days before the meeting. I take a week and a half to like, really review them and like point them into what information needs to be better framed. And then they need to resubmit the exhibits. So they’re accessible. I will say we’ve used some Cmg exec packages few times as like exemplary examples, especially with the like

Yerba Buena SX80: second and 3rd reviews. And how they’ve responded. I think Cmg. Did it really successfully in one of the burling game projects. And so I’ve used that and shown that to people a few times, yeah, great, yeah, great. Anyone else want to make some

Yerba Buena SX80: further comments.

Yerba Buena SX80: So yeah, yeah.

Yerba Buena SX80: it’s it feels a little. It feels a little inappropriate somehow to do this. But I guess this is a this is a different kind of meeting. But yeah, I I had a few. These are not in any particular order.

Yerba Buena SX80: but I mean I I’ll just say for myself, speaking personally for myself, like as a person who’s who’s written? Any of these reports edited it and added to them,

Yerba Buena SX80: along this

Yerba Buena SX80: the

Yerba Buena SX80: design analyst.

Yerba Buena SX80: I I often wonder you know.

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah, it it do. They make sense, you know? Do they make sense to you as the reader? The public, of course, but also to the board. And are they facilitating the process? And how much of the how much of the discussion is facilitated by the report versus the exhibits, and sort of what’s

Yerba Buena SX80: where’s you know? Where does your mind go as a reviewer first, st I mean, are you? Are you reading the report in full, looking at the exhibits. You’re reading the exhibits 1st going back to the report, and just sort of where the the real sort of bang for the buck is because I think that’s that’s part of the question we’re trying to answer

Yerba Buena SX80: and I like. I guess I’m happy to hear that no one, no one, at least no one, was being very clever, no one said. I find the reports confusing. You know. I can’t follow them sometimes the narrow descriptions of you know the geography of the site which are which are difficult to write for me, at least.

Yerba Buena SX80: folks are able to read them, or at least they’re able to read them in contact in the context of the exhibits. So that that’s good to know.

Yerba Buena SX80: I

Yerba Buena SX80: I

Yerba Buena SX80: think that

Yerba Buena SX80: the the the discussion on questions was really helpful for me.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think that as a staff we sort of are

Yerba Buena SX80: sometimes trying to telegraph specific concerns. We have and it’s it’s great to be able to do that directly. But sometimes we are.

Yerba Buena SX80: Also not trying to get in front of the board. We we really do want to hear your

Yerba Buena SX80: initial reactions and in in many cases you’re you’re bringing the expertise that that we either lack at the staff level or that we are looking to have greatly have the issues sort of greatly expanded for us. So I I it was interesting just to hear that conversation. And I’m not sure we’ll go with that exactly. And Ashley, and you have ideas. But but that’s that’s just sort of to. I mean, maybe answer sort of the

Yerba Buena SX80: the issue that you put out there that sometimes we are trying to get some pointed feedback, and sometimes we are not trying to get too much in front of it, because we want sort of the conversation to evolve. So it’s just interesting to think about that. And it sounds like, maybe there’s some appetite for us to be a little bit more direct in in some cases. Really, that’s the consensus. I think I was hearing

Yerba Buena SX80: and then this is really outside the box, but,

Yerba Buena SX80: A number of years ago we had a similar conversation for

Yerba Buena SX80: the Commission itself, and we looked at the lengthy

Yerba Buena SX80: staff reports that we provided to them, and actually made a decision to slow them down. Quite a bit. And I bring that up. Not not so much to to say that that’s what should happen here. But when we did it we brought in a urban planning professor who held a workshop for the commission and presented her research was on on orthodox ways to present staff present information for planning commissions

Yerba Buena SX80: and she was sort of discussing the the avant garde approaches to staff reports. And you know, this was.

Yerba Buena SX80: I think, 6 or 7 years ago now, but one of those was more reliance on video. And

Yerba Buena SX80: that really made me think about the comment, Justin, today, you made about well, when I go out to the site and I have the staff report with me, you know. That’s when it really kind of clicks. And I know that. One thing we’ve done, Andrea Gaffney sort of pioneered this for us, but we oftentimes get a sort of a rapid video of the site. And I think that really helps in the context of our meetings. It. It just occurred to me, hearing that comment, thinking about that sort of

Yerba Buena SX80: that that video that we prepare. I, you know, maybe there’s some. Maybe there’s something just as some idea to explore. Maybe there’s something that we could look at in terms of helping provide that site. Context?

Yerba Buena SX80: in a more

Yerba Buena SX80: video or or sort of a different form. Or we could ask applicants to produce some of the just some like different multimedia ways to sort of understand site conditions. Just just I don’t know if that’s that’s feasible. But I just just made me think.

Yerba Buena SX80: And then one last thing I wanted to say, this is a response to to I think mostly your comments, Bob, but certainly others, too, that there’s there’s some things that you’d like to see, either emphasize more that you definitely don’t want to lose, or they even want to expand it in the staff reports, and I think those are really helpful comments for us here, too. Because I think that we’re hearing there’s some places where we could pull back a little bit and redirect staff resources to

Yerba Buena SX80: expanding. I think the conversations around. it sounds like there’s a strong desire for have some additional information about resilience and sea level rise conditions of the site, but also

Yerba Buena SX80: I heard that with nature based solutions and sort of opportunities at the site, too, which I mean are something part of our discussions. But I don’t know that we’ve necessarily dedicated sections of the report to those before. So those strike me as interesting comments, too. So

Yerba Buena SX80: that’s just my! Those are the things that pop out for me. Do you think it would

Yerba Buena SX80: would be worthwhile asking the applicant? If they’ve

Yerba Buena SX80: consider those or

Yerba Buena SX80: I don’t know. I’m just trying to think of a way

Yerba Buena SX80: to achieve that or get it started without being a big burden. Yeah, I and maybe I should start talking and short, Ashley. But I I think that’s kind of for particularly the you know, that are pre application discussions. We really are. Having to have

Yerba Buena SX80: a kind of give and take relationship with the with the the applicant team. Because you know we don’t. We don’t have a formal application. We don’t have a record necessarily to build off of so absent going out and doing sort of independent research, which is

Yerba Buena SX80: possible for some very limited questions. We don’t necessarily have the resources to to undertake that. So I think it’s gonna have to be that way if we if we do expand that. But I think that that

Yerba Buena SX80: you know that we have a lot of policy questions. That are part of our big plan that are really important. And you know, that are newer, and that might be an

Yerba Buena SX80: sort of shift in emphasis that that we need to make. Because those are. Those are certainly questions that come up later. And we know that a lot of the design decisions kind of get baked in this early stage. So I think that’s a so very insightful comment.

Yerba Buena SX80: yeah.

Yerba Buena SX80: okay, Ashley.

Yerba Buena SX80: has this accomplished

Yerba Buena SX80: what you were looking for

Yerba Buena SX80: one of the customer today?

Yerba Buena SX80: I mean, I I think so. It is a little bit of a question for you, Ashley, because I feel like you’re you’re kind of marshaling this conversation. But I think it gives us something to work with. I kind of for internal discussions, I think, for I mean for us. Obviously, like you are our like primary audience for these staff reports. If they’re not serving a purpose for you. Then

Yerba Buena SX80: it, you know, we feel like we’re wasting our time like, I think that’s the thing that we want to avoid right. So I think anything that requires time is fine.

Yerba Buena SX80: like we do want to like any. We in the end like we want our work to go towards something and accomplish like a goal. And so however much time it takes to do that, I think, is fair for us to spend. I do just like, you know, as somebody who

Yerba Buena SX80: who performs this work. You you do want to make sure that it is time well spent. That is like building on something that is like providing value for you know somebody else, or and for the the process as a whole,

Yerba Buena SX80: and just to kind of know. For me, there’s always like this sort of series of like tensions and trade offs like when you’re writing a report like this like it does feel like very tempting to go with like kind of

Yerba Buena SX80: cookie cutter. Like presentation of information like you can. You can fly through that very quickly and move on to the next thing. But then also sometimes for me, there’s like a sense that you’re losing, like the ability to

Yerba Buena SX80: to highlight certain things, or to take a more like bespoke approach to each project which has its own.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, like unique features. Like, if you really like, read down a lot of the projects that we bring, like some of them, are really

Yerba Buena SX80: like incomparable to like like one another. And so it it does feel like, maybe sometimes like they require, like a like fresh approach, to like describe, like what really is going on here and like that, answering the question of like, what is really happening like you

Yerba Buena SX80: kind of do have to like.

Yerba Buena SX80: sit down and and

Yerba Buena SX80: free yourself from like the outline. A little bit.

Yerba Buena SX80: But then.

Yerba Buena SX80: you know, that does

Yerba Buena SX80: kind of like throw you off of the edge of a cliff a little bit like, Okay, where are we going with this?

Yerba Buena SX80: But yeah. So I think I I really appreciated hearing

Yerba Buena SX80: at

Yerba Buena SX80: that. This information is useful. And I think one of the things that we will be developing as we go, especially like

Yerba Buena SX80: now that I’m thinking of our staff is coming, and that’s like a whole new like source of like information and data coming in the future.

Yerba Buena SX80: like, how do we

Yerba Buena SX80: take some of these sections which I think the ones that I struggle with the most are the ones that are like the most

Yerba Buena SX80: sort of like template oriented where we like aren’t doing a lot of like

Yerba Buena SX80: interpretation. Because we’re not maybe not as comfortable, familiar with that information yet.

Yerba Buena SX80: And like developing like more of like

Yerba Buena SX80: a narrative at this point to me, like the staff reports, are all about presenting information so that other people can like take it

Yerba Buena SX80: to the the stage of interpretation. Because at this point it’s like, early in the process, we haven’t done all of the policy analysis that will ultimately do and so yeah,

Yerba Buena SX80: like kind of

Yerba Buena SX80: thinking of like, how do we present that information like kind of in the best, like most objective but also

Yerba Buena SX80: useful way that you can actually build on

Yerba Buena SX80: like, that’s 1 of the things I think that we’re gonna be talking about.

Yerba Buena SX80: Sorry.

Yerba Buena SX80: Can I actually say one more thing? Sorry. Just the comment of the the exhibits, and how the you know good exhibits really make a big difference in the meeting.

Yerba Buena SX80: I I just want to sort of acknowledge Ashley and Yuri and and Andrea before them. Because I I feel like the the amount of time and effort that goes into kind of getting those exhibits just right where we can, you know. Sometimes it’s you know you’re you’re pulling teeth. But where we can, I think that that

Yerba Buena SX80: at least in my time at Bcdc. That that the sort of the the effort on that has has allowed us to get to the point. We’re having this conversation about, how do we change our own reports? Because we’re not trying necessarily to fill in so many gaps? So I think we’ve gotten really good at working with applicants to get those to a much better place. So I just just wanted to kind of give you give you all a shout out, because I I know that’s very behind the scenes. And and I think it’s gotten a lot more sophisticated. And I think it’s allowing

Yerba Buena SX80: to even have this discussion about what’s the world this text that accompanies them rather than having to worry so much about creating the perfect staff report, and hopefully they’ll give us a few good exhibits to illustrate it. So I I think that’s a big shift.

Yerba Buena SX80: Very good. Look. I think that

Yerba Buena SX80: I think we’ve given you a lot of reaction comments.

Yerba Buena SX80: I mean just

Yerba Buena SX80: to say again what most of the Board has already said so. Well. I mean the work you were doing is excellent, and you know we

Yerba Buena SX80: we rely on you all to which you’re doing, you know to be absolutely on point for the technical side of the

Yerba Buena SX80: you know the the projects, making sure that

Yerba Buena SX80: you know things are policy compliance, you know.

Yerba Buena SX80: So all of that work is

Yerba Buena SX80: takes a lot of work. So thank you for the work that you all do on that making sure, because our our job is is really to make sure that we’ve got sufficient information to be able to look at something with fresh eyes and provide some perspective to you all, and you know that’s our job. So and I think the material I I don’t think wholesale.

Yerba Buena SX80: No one has said that there should be wholesale wholesale reconstruction of the reports. You know, I think the the the the way they are currently structured is is clear and

Yerba Buena SX80: but anything you can do to make it more efficient for yourselves, you know, to we talked about, you see, a number of things that could maybe help it help us to, you know. Be able to 0 in on the critical points. But you’re doing a great job so, and and the reports are read. No one, said they. Nobody

Yerba Buena SX80: said they didn’t read the reports. So

Yerba Buena SX80: so thank you very much. Last last question, how are they expecting you to respond to them? The the Efficiency Committee.

Yerba Buena SX80: You all will be the guinea pigs when we come up with a new form.

Yerba Buena SX80: They’ll tell us if it’s working or not.

Yerba Buena SX80: They gotta tell you about. No, you guys. Oh, when we bring any changes to you, I would hope that you can tell us if it’s effective way of communicating or no. You need to go back to the old way. Yeah. Oh, we will, we will.

Yerba Buena SX80: Okay, well, look, thank you very much. I think that wraps the meeting, thanks to everyone for getting online. And

Yerba Buena SX80: we have a meeting in October. So keep an eye out for that. So can someone move to close the meeting like to make a motion to adjourn? Thank you. Second, thank you. Meeting adjourned. Have a good evening. Everyone.

Patricia Fonseca Flores | CMG | she, her: Thank you. Bye. Thank you.