March 24, 2021 Meeting Audio Transcripts

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, let's begin.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Alright, so good morning everyone and welcome to our virtual bcc enforcement.

Greg Scharff, Chair: My name is Greg show, and I am the Chair of the CD c's enforcement committee.

Greg Scharff, Chair: To increase public access during the meeting we have live stream capability via Facebook live.

Greg Scharff, Chair: The expectation for anyone viewing via Facebook, is to conduct themselves in a professional manner when posting comments for those viewing through Facebook live there will be a 1 second delay between the live streaming the zoom meeting.

Greg Scharff, Chair: All public participation will be available by dialing and using zoom phone numbers, published on our agenda or through the zoom web platform, so our first order of business is to call the role facility, called the role.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: modeling Commissioners calling roll call Commissioner Gilmore.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: here.

John Vasquez: Commissioner vasquez here.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: yeah sure.


Greg Scharff, Chair: All right, and that brings us to our public comment period.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Which is our agenda in accordance with our usual practices indicate on the agenda, we will now have general public comments on items, not on today's agenda.

Greg Scharff, Chair: We have, however, received one general comment by email, which has been posted on our website with the information for the meeting and was made available to the members of the committee.

Greg Scharff, Chair: So for members of the public, if you would like to speak either during the general public comment period or during the public comment period for an item on the agenda, you can do so in two ways.

Greg Scharff, Chair: First, if you're attending on the zoom Web.

Greg Scharff, Chair: platform, please raise your hand by clicking on the participants icon at the bottom of your screen.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And look at the box where your name is listed under attendees find the small palm icon the left, if you click on that palm icon it will raise your hand.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Second, if you're joining our meeting by a phone, you must dial star nine to raise your hand and dial star six on your keypad to unmute your phone when the host asked you in order to make a comment.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Then meeting host will call it individuals who have raised their hands and the order they were raised.

Greg Scharff, Chair: After you are called on you will be unmuted so that you can share your comments remember public comments are limited to three minutes.

Greg Scharff, Chair: To speak, please keep your comments respectful and focused and we're here to listen to any individual request to speak, but each speaker has responsibility to act in a civil and courteous manner is defined by the Chair.

Greg Scharff, Chair: We will not tolerate hate speech direct or indirect tracks or abusive language, we will meet anyone and fails to follow these guidelines so Margie do we have any raised hands by the public.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: We don't have any way saturation.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Alright, so I guess, now we move on to approval of the draft minutes for the March meeting we've all been furnished copies of these Minutes and I need a motion to approve.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Commissioner Gilmore I see you're voting to approve the Minutes.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Thank you, Commissioner.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Commissioner vasquez I see your second thing.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Yes, perfect so all in favor do you want to call role so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, and Commission at Gilmore.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, provision i've asked is.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, she is.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Yes, all right.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Now we move to priscilla for our.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: morning once again Commissioners.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The report today will be brief, since we did have a meeting march and may report or cover developments beginning January 1 to date, meaning march 1.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And a written report on our progress in detail, will be provided at the end of the third quarter in May.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We open 3 new cases and closed 1 cases and in 1 of the most cases 14 cases had no violation cases where duplicate reports of existing cases two cases in two cases other local or state agencies were better place to resolve them.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And they were referred there for resolution and in cases we obtained documentation independently or received documentation from respondents that helped us resolve the cases.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: into cases they were low priority reports with minimal impact and were closed, we now have a total case load of 191 cases as of March.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: sorry I meant to say much not much 81 before for case decrease from the hundred and 9 caseload that we reported to you on march 9.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: At our last meeting so two cases have been closed for no violation, since our last meeting and two other cases were closed when documentation was received that the public access maintenance concerns had been resolved.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: there's also case this represented case decrease from the caseload that we had as of December .

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We continue to work on the resolution of the oldest cases and Adrian will provide an update on those cases at the end of May, the city of oakland provided us with photographs on march 19 showing their ongoing compliance with a Union point park cease and desist order.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And their efforts, their ongoing efforts to restore the park, we also received photographs from a local resident on Monday march documenting further progress of the city is making.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Including cleaning areas around the park and capping the water spigots you remember from our last meeting that one of our public commenters had.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: stated that one of the things that attract people to the park is the access to those waters tickets.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: we're continuing to refine our case management and case review procedures to make sure that they are effective in enabling our staff.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: To meet our enforcement goals of deterrence consistency, fairness and transparency, the process of integrating our simplified case status codes, as well as tracking aged and closed cases is ongoing.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Pending any questions that's all I have, and I also wanted to recognize that condition of whack and connect has joined us, thank you for joining us.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Yes, thank you.

Greg Scharff, Chair: um does any Commissioners have any questions on that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: All right, I don't see any um.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Do we have any public comment on this item.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: No public comment.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Alright, so now let's move on to our case update for so you'll know provide a case update report.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I think this is the item that we differed from our previous meeting.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, that is correct, and this will be new to all of the Commission as we don't typically give this sort of update, but it will be something will be.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Trying to do going forward just so that we can give a clearer picture of all the different efforts that we're making to make sure that cases are resolved and that you're informed about any settlements that we are reaching, even if they might not require.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Committee action in order to get them resolved so if you'll give me a moment I will share my screen.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Okay, so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Just to give you a general overview of what this update will cover we've had three settlements that we've reached.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: This year, and i'll just provide some information on them there's a key distinction between the land matter and the Chevron and their island.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Matters because those are related to dredging and i'll give you an explanation about the distinction there and then we do have one case where a 3 day letter was issued.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Which is a notice of violation and we were able to get recovery and then i'll also have an overview of a case distribution by type.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: After our Commission meeting last week we had some questions about how the different cases that we have a spread out and what most common sort of case and so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We committed to providing a better idea of what that looks like there are some challenges related to that because.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Just how something is reported after we investigate might not end up being what was reported and so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: That case distribution i'll show you will be based on what was reported, not necessarily what we ended up seeing in some instances, and then the last part of the presentation will just be our next steps which will be similar to what you see as we present before the Commission.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So for the land matter we had.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: oyster Shell mining that was going on, after a BC DC permit had expired, and so, for the period between 1 and the ongoing efforts to get that permit.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: in place and in settlement of that violation, we had an agreement signed and the settlement amount is as indicated 1 9 which will be made in three payments.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And the last payment will be around August, the first payment will be about a month from now and the next payment will be may 14 and then that last payment in August.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We also wrote into that agreement that if there are any subsequent violations meaning continued oyster Shell mining without a permit it'll cost the.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The permit T per violation, the reason why I was mentioning earlier, that this is distinct from the two other cases that i'm going to mention.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Is that, as you can see from how long the case took this was one of the cases that Matthew true Hello was working on.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And so there's been ongoing effort to try and resolve this case, since it first started, and there were different challenges that we faced, but the good news is that we managed to get it to resolution.

Larry Goldzband: If I can interrupt for just one second priscilla just remind the enforcement committee Matthew is still on the contact tracing team so and we don't know when Matthew is going to be back so he's been away from us now for nine months priscilla.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The prize money yes.

Larry Goldzband: I just wanted to make sure that the enforcement Committee, remember that okay.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So, as I mentioned earlier there's a distinction for cases that involve dredging so in this particular matter Chevron had the dredge operation plan that they had submitted to BC DC and as part of.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: sediment teams process of approving those they review what's in the plan and based on what the plan says they give the appropriate approval.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Contrary to what was approved Chevron did work that was inconsistent with their dredge operation plan so we opened an enforcement case in on February and.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: After we obtained information on what happened and why Chevron didn't follow their dredge operation plan, we sent proposed settlement, and the reason that the amount is a small, is that the particular circumstances of the case were that we had.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The the location where dredging occurred was miss marked, and so the impact to the environment wasn't as.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: as significant as it otherwise would have been so the circumstances, made it so that the settlement meant amount that we proposed made sense.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And we were able to reach that settlement on Monday, and we also as part of our agreement to get them to resolve this matter required that they provide us with information.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: On the steps that they will be taking to make sure there's no recurrence of this particular era in this particular circumstance.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Chevron had previously been using independent contractors to create the bridge operation plans and different things, but now they shifted to doing things internally.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: In some aspects and for them also this was a learning process, and so, at least, we know now from what they've provided to us.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: That they have procedural steps in place that will prevent similar areas from occurring in the future, which is what we want to make sure that we don't just resolve.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The issue that's brought to us, but we make sure that, for whatever caused that particular issue it's resolved for future work that's done by the same permit tea or respondent are related to their permit.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So for the map island dry dock it's a similar dredging case, and so the dredges that dredged material was supposed to be disposed of at one site, it was disposed of at the wrong site.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Part of the reason why the settlement amount again is low, is that the site that was approved is for the cleanest material trudged material and so where they ended up disposing the dredged material was a different location that accepts.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: dredge material that has other toxins in it, and so there wasn't again impact to the environment.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: In a way, that would have been detrimental part of the reason we made sure we specified dredging cases is that.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: As you can imagine, with dredging which is digging up material, and especially in this particular circumstance.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: telling them to go pick up that material from where they took it and take it to the right place is not feasible, which is why standardized find process.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: For administrative finds doesn't work for dredging cases, which is why our way of resolving them is through proposing settlements and assessing a civil penalty, as we did in this instance, and were able to prove.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: To obtain it again, this was an inadvertent error, but we have made sure that we got documentation of procedural changes that have been made to prevent a recurrence in this particular instance, the.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The the company that was doing the dredging was doing multiple sites, at the same time, and so the trucks went to the wrong location for disposal instead of where they were supposed to go, but again, we have received.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Information that shows that they will not be making similar errors in subsequent work.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So for our standardized find process, I mentioned that we issued a 3 day letter in this particular instance it's a restaurant in Berlin game.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: That had a public access area that was in disrepair so it was a tripping hazard, this was our fault that had one down over the years and we had got two complaints to address its.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: condition, and so we had tried to work with the restaurant owners, as we always do to get the matter resolved as promptly as possible when that wasn't happening in a timely manner.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We issued the 3 day notice in January 14 and by March we were able to obtain documentation that the work had been done and that the condition of the public access area was good, and people are able to use the area, the final amount is $1, because.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The way the standardized find process works is that if the work is completed within 3 days, and there would have been no final test, but in this instance, it was completed on the th day.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And so, between days 3 and I believe it is the fine is $1, so that's why we have a fine of $1, so in terms of preventative measures.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: This particular restaurant in Berlin game will be doing ongoing maintenance, so that the particular pathway doesn't get to the condition that it did, but again, as I mentioned, this is one of those.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: places that has been a public access area for a number of years over , and so this was wear and tear but if they had been doing periodic maintenance they might not have got to this level, but hopefully we.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: will make sure that going forward we don't have similar issues from the particular area being run down.

K Donovan: Once before you move on to the next.

K Donovan: set of dina I noticed Commissioner vasquez does have a question.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Oh, thank you.

John Vasquez: Thank.

John Vasquez: You for so till we go back to the slide three Lynn the oyster mining.


1:41Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: There we go.


John Vasquez: Do they have a permit now.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: They do not that's why we wrote into the settlement that if they continue to violate our requirement to have a permit.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Every time they mind we get and part of the reason we don't have a permit in place yet is that other resource agencies have to provide approvals before we do, and so that's part of the delay and Karen do you want to add anything.

K Donovan: I know that pretty much covers it, this has been the permitting process was complicated in part because.

K Donovan: After the the permit that is now expired, was issued, there was the listing of longfin smelt so they had to get incidental take approval they've had to get various they then their state lands least.

K Donovan: expired and had to be renewed and they are in kind of the final stages, at this point, working to determine the appropriate mitigation, so that they can get their federal approvals.

K Donovan: But all of that must occur before BC DC can issue the permit and as priscilla explained that is why we have set the agreement of.

K Donovan: To ensure that there will be a heavy disincentive to conducting any mining before the permit is finalized, and at this point, they are not engaged in any activities on the bay, to our knowledge.

John Vasquez: isn't this the part of the same company that does the sand mining.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: It is.

John Vasquez: But was there some confusion that that permit covered everything.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: No, no.

K Donovan: Two are distinct um they had for a long time been mining oyster Shell and have had permits from the CDC but they let their permit expire.

John Vasquez: And we're continuing to.

K Donovan: engage in activities.

John Vasquez: With those 1.

John Vasquez: The permit expired yes.

John Vasquez: Because they have they take the shells to collinsville where they process them and i've been out to that operation, and I want to say, between 1 and I think I may have been out there, a couple times and the operation was full fully operating so it's it's.

John Vasquez: A good, I guess, I wonder why they didn't move forward with their permit if they knew they didn't have one.

K Donovan: yeah they had they part of the reason for us, insisting that there be penalties associated with this activity is that they.

K Donovan: were informed by BC DC in I believe it was late 13 that they had an expired permit and they made a deliberate decision to continue their operations as they worked through the permitting process with various agencies.

K Donovan: So we it, yes, that there were ongoing operations on during this period listed on this slide and at that point, they did not have a valid DC DC permit.

John Vasquez: So if I went out to today they wouldn't be operating.

K Donovan: On.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: To our knowledge now.

John Vasquez: yeah it's a bottle.

K Donovan: out and see it tell us.

John Vasquez: know but receiving barges, they could crush the material they have on site already and so that all right yeah.

John Vasquez: And then the mayor Ireland who who's in charge of that, who is the land owner or the responsible party.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So Linda Moran is who is doing the dredging here and.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: I forget the exact I think it's the entities name I think is matt island something but i'm sorry forget the owner.

John Vasquez: So I thought it bombed in the city in that webinar was doing the work, no.

John Vasquez: Okay.

John Vasquez: that's it Thank you.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: Okay priscilla we have Commissioner wagon connect.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: Okay, like to speak and Commissioner Gilmore.


Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Go ahead commissioned a wagon.

Brad Wagenknecht : connect well you brought up a lot of a lot of issues in here, you know what i'm with the hundred $3, fine.

Brad Wagenknecht : What what does it cost to get permitted.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Can you answer that.

K Donovan: No, I don't have that information, we can get that for you at the next meeting, as our permitting staff is working with them on the appropriate permit APP fee for BC DC.

K Donovan: But note that they need they needed authorizations from a lot of other resource agencies and needed to renew, at least with the state lands Commission.

Brad Wagenknecht : And I get my point with, that is, it sometimes the $13, maybe maybe the choice of business choice that they made not to not to do the permitting they.

Brad Wagenknecht : Because it's so complicated and other things and cost a lot in $13, it's just a business choice and if that's the case, we may we may need to push up our our fines and that in that.

Brad Wagenknecht : You know the thousand dollars you kind of you kind of indicated the thousand dollars on the the what was the last one they.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: May I live right.

Brad Wagenknecht : Yes, well and it might not be is that enough is that enough to you know in to me my My big goal is that they.

Brad Wagenknecht : They comply and do it do it the right way and if $1, gets you to do that that's fine to me, you know if it's it's if it's $ million that's that gets you to do that the right way.

Brad Wagenknecht : You know, we have to, we have to look at that and and I guess that's not our that's not our that's, the bigger the bigger Commission that has to see that, but we can give them put in and.

K Donovan: So we have.

K Donovan: pride to establish in the civil penalty policy that penalty should be set at a level that will deter.

K Donovan: unauthorized conduct and not and not allow an entity to just consider it a cost of doing business that is a that is an element of our civil penalty policy.

K Donovan: One of the issues for BC DC is really the mcateer Petrus Act and the fact that the civil penalty authorization, it has not been updated recently, so we can't go above $, a day that's that's essentially what the act allows and then $, per violation so.

Brad Wagenknecht : that's legislation.

K Donovan: mm hmm.

Brad Wagenknecht : Okay, thank you.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And Commission at Gilmore you had some questions for us.

Mari Gilmore: Well, Commissioner wagon connect brought up what I wanted to talk about, and so the dollars i'm going to assume.

Mari Gilmore: is sufficient enough deterrence going forward, but my question like Commissioner wagon next was the settlement settlement amount, whether that.

Mari Gilmore: Is, as he said, a cost of doing business or is that an amount that would take away the incentive, you know, because one of one of the things is that I think it's the restaurant and jack London square that went on for so long that.

Mari Gilmore: The violations and the benefit that he got from violating the permit was definitely a cost of doing business and definitely was worth it for him in the long run and i'm wondering, I mean because this went on for eight years.

Mari Gilmore: Whether or not, that settlement amount and i'm not i'm not suggesting that be the rethink this, but just going forward trying to ensure that the settlement amount takes away that economic benefit during the time of permits, he was out of compliance.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Any other questions, since I can't see hands chaffee unmuted.

Greg Scharff, Chair: No, I don't know yes okay good yeah no I was gonna pile on actually say same concerns um I mean eight years is a really long time, and I gather, when you say per violation I would assume that every day they go out and do that, that could be a dollar violation.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, right, that is correct.

Greg Scharff, Chair: That would add up pretty quick.


Greg Scharff, Chair: I guess I wanted some sense of how you came up with 1 to 9 because theoretically, we could have done a day know from 1 .

Greg Scharff, Chair: Yes, so.

Greg Scharff, Chair: No , a year.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We use the administrative civil penalty policy and, as we mentioned throughout this process as they were trying to get permits the different circumstances that were.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: let's say working against them and us to get us to the solution that we wanted.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And so, part of what led to our settlement amount was the different circumstances and the other challenges that were they were facing in terms of getting the permissions that they needed to get from other agencies.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: As well as the work that they were doing to mitigate the impact of their mining so, for example, they have fish screens that they put in place pretty early on.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Around 14, and so the impact was reduced over time so it's not like the level of impact they were having in 1 was exactly equal to the impact they were having in and so those sorts of considerations.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: were part of our thought processes, we were applying the administrative administrative civil penalty policy in determining what the appropriate settlement amount would be and, as you know, with all settlements it's not necessarily the best result, but it is just what.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: was feasible and also because of the challenges related to the pandemic and the amount of work that the business might have and similar considerations.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: It makes more sense to have a settlement that you will actually receive then necessarily to have a large settlement that you'll never see.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And so, as a practical matter, we had to make different considerations in terms of determining.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: What would be a sufficient sufficient settlement to put the point across that it's not okay to keep doing what you're doing, but also one that we knew for sure we were going to be able to obtain within a certain timeframe period.

K Donovan: And one more thing I wanted to note as you're doing the math because i'm is that they do, they are not out there, mining, oyster Shell every day in fact priscilla.

K Donovan: i've forgotten the numbers now, but essentially by.

K Donovan: Switching to newer more modern dredges and doing various things with their equipment they've actually cut significantly the the amount of days, every year, that they're out there.

K Donovan: And as part of the incidental tape permitting and the measures that are put in place to deal with longfin smell.

K Donovan: They actually have an a floating two month window in the spring, where they can't conduct any operations so it's not I point that out because it's significantly less than the.

K Donovan: The amount of days, you would expect that they were actually out there, mining, every year, but this penalty was set up to take into account every day of unauthorized mining and as we negotiated it we divided it.

K Donovan: The overall period between 1 and into distinct periods is priscilla's explaining so that there was a much heavier penalty.

K Donovan: For the period before they installed the fish screens the protective equipment that will prevent on take a long, can smell, and then there was a heavier penalty before the incidental take permit.

K Donovan: issued and that has now been issued, there was a secret process that was tied to the State lands Commission ELISE and so through the entirety of the process.

K Donovan: There were efforts to minimize the environmental damage and there was this exploration of all of the measures and.

K Donovan: Getting the information together, that would be necessary for DC DC to issue a permit the basic fact, though, is that we still have not issue to permit because all this other permitting must precede the CD c's renewal of the permit.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Okay, I guess i'm not really satisfied.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And the reason is not se on this one, but my concern is is that we've done the analysis or do we just not have the to understand, of whether or not.

Greg Scharff, Chair: It was a financial benefit for them, you know the quote cost of doing business, I mean and the way we finished and the way we talk about the set of Staff level to me right now, my concern really is around.

Greg Scharff, Chair: That they didn't have a permit they willfully violated because they thought it was better, and then we said that was sort of Okay, because there was a bunch they were having trouble getting least they were having trouble.

Greg Scharff, Chair: You know, doing all these things, and they were basically acting as if they had a permit they were they were moving to make sure that the fish weren't damage they were doing environmental medications and stuff.

Greg Scharff, Chair: i'm just not sure from a policy point of view that we've had that discussion, then how to deal with that i'm i'm not sure i'm comfortable with the notion that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Three years they will fully chose to continue to operate and continue their business and we basically were a little complicit in allowing them to do that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: With the notion that they were having a hard time and there was a lot of stuff and you know the bureaucracies difficult to manage and they should have gotten their permit earlier.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And you know i'm in the back of my mind, and I think what other Commissioners are thinking is how much money, did they make over that eight years.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I mean, did they make you know millions did they make half a million did they make less than 1 I mean and then, I guess, I was also a little.

Greg Scharff, Chair: concerned with the notion that this seems to be they came before us and have sand mining permits and stuff I don't get the sense that if we'd find them.

Greg Scharff, Chair: $, or a million dollars, they wouldn't have been able to pay it, I mean you know I didn't get a sense that is one of our factors we look at.

Greg Scharff, Chair: But I didn't get the sense that we had that in our thought process, and so I guess what i'd like to see is that if staffs going to go make settlements like this that we have a rubric.

Greg Scharff, Chair: That goes through it, that has a sense of why we would do that, and you know I understand it there's a time issue with some of this but, frankly, this seems more egregious.

Greg Scharff, Chair: than a lot of things and maybe i'm just think it's maybe it's less egregious than I think it is, but the notion eight years.

Greg Scharff, Chair: of conducting your business because you couldn't navigate the permit process and almost sounded like we felt a little bad for them like they're going through this process and that and.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I don't feel bad for them at all, I mean I just think willfully violated stuff so what would you recommend as a way to get the commit the the.

Greg Scharff, Chair: The Commission comfortable frankly with how settlements are done and that, because obviously we don't approve these settlements, maybe we should approve it so i'm wondering about that, when it gets to a certain degree Jus level.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, so the circumstances matter, and so, as I mentioned before, and because we obviously didn't go into any in depth discussion of every nuance that went into the conversation.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: It might seem like we didn't consider everything that we needed to consider, but we did and in summarizing what.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: was considered it might seem as if we were looking to favor them more than us, but that's not really what happened.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: I think that part of what gives the committee, a level of confidence is that we are using the administrative civil penalty policy which you've seen.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And you know what feeds into that particular process and how we come up with what has a major impact, what has the minor impact and what the associated civil penalty is, as we determine those different circumstances.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And that's what we use to come up with this amount and so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Part of our record the enforcement record has all the different considerations that we did within the administrative civil penalty policy.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: which builds a level of consistency and how we come up with these settlements, rather than just have it be something that's not transparent, that nobody can figure out and is really complex that.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Nobody can go back and figure out why we reached the understanding that we did, and so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Part of the challenge in discussing something that has taken eight years is that this is not the norm is one of the things that the committee should pay attention to because.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: It sounds bad because it's eight years but circumstances and what was going on in 1 with the enforcement team and everything else.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: In terms of personnel and turnover and different things, those sorts of circumstances also matter, because the reality is you can't pursue everything, at the same time and we're in a different position now where.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We have additional staff and they're able to do things that we might not necessarily have been able to do at the time.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And so that's something I would recommend that the committee bear in mind, especially when we're when we're talking about the older cases that we've had to resolve after substantial time has passed and different things have happened, and so it.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, we potentially could have gotta hire settlement but there's no guarantee of that and also as you're.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: trying to reach settlement more time is passing, which means the violation is just ongoing and, as you know from our our new procedures.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We have a particular timeframe that we're trying to set within which things need to be resolved, instead of them dragging on forever so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The lesson from this and part of why we brought it up, was to show that in as much as we are glad that we got a settlement here, it might not be ideal.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: But it does represent a lot of work that went into getting something in place so that any ongoing violations are addressed immediately and we're not in 4 talking about the same thing, and as we try to reach some sort of agreement that.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: and get some larger settlement amount and that's just a calculus, we have to do in terms of available resources and what we have the bandwidth to accomplish as we are pursuing so many different things at the same time.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Okay, well, thank you for that I appreciate the challenges you face on it.

Mari Gilmore: Carol are you.

K Donovan: nervous vasquez and Gilmore have their hands.


Mari Gilmore: Sorry um.

:-> :Mari Gilmore: I had a.

Mari Gilmore: related question what, how do we handle a situation where we have a permit T who comes to us to renew permits and you know that particular permit is fine there no issues with it.

Mari Gilmore: But then we discovered that that permit T has a another permit that they are out of compliance with and i'm just kind of curious as to how we handle that situation.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So go ahead.

K Donovan: Oh well, i'll start it and i'll let priscilla add on, we cannot it i'll let you know that we have faced this situation before.

K Donovan: But the way the mcateer Petrus act is written and just the way the permitting process works is, we cannot refuse to process a permit application, simply because some a permit T.

K Donovan: has an outstanding violation if we are presented with a permit APP that is ready for filing we we've, we have to follow our permitting procedures.

K Donovan: On this once again is a unique situation, because this is kind of an ongoing activity, as you know.

K Donovan: More typical would be that we have somebody who is constructing a project or looking for a permit amendment related to that project now, we have seen this.

K Donovan: It particularly with regard to dredging um and we can't refuse to grant an episode approval, for instance, simply because somebody has.

K Donovan: An outstanding violation, but we can, and this is part of our ongoing exploration of how to do compliance or how to essentially enhance the process for compliance, we can ensure that we've put every measure in place, we can when we're issuing a permit to prevent a violation of that permit.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So typically when we have instances, as you described Commissioner Gilmore.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The permit analyst will look in our database and be able to tell that there's an enforcement case that's pending and they'll typically notify enforcement.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So that since we have a contact person for that organization, we can work in tandem, and try and get the issue that we already know exists address at the same time that we have them at the table.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: for something else, so that when they are walking away from DC DC ideally.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: They have up to date information on all their permits, not just what they applied for, but the existing one that had issues that needed to be addressed that have been addressed and.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: It doesn't always work out that way but that's the process that we've been trying to implement to make things better and and take the opportunity, when people are speaking to us on other matters to get.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: matters that are pending addressed.

Brad McCrea: So, Commissioner, Gilmore i'll say that it's both the what you just heard from Karen and priscilla the law doesn't allow us to hold up an application.

Brad McCrea: While we look at a violation from the same permit tea, and the same applicant, however, we fully recognize and I think everybody recognizes that we have their attention and that's the time when we can get the most traction on the violations that are present.

Mari Gilmore: Thank you, that was very helpful.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: All right, so assuming no other questions.

K Donovan: You have conditional baskets.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: baskets yeah.

John Vasquez: So I started all this.

John Vasquez: But you know what to brad we did look at.

John Vasquez: isn't really easier for somebody just not to.

John Vasquez: come in and get the permit and consider the violation or the penalty is a cost of doing business, I know, we had much discussion about that early on, when we were trying to put all this back together.

John Vasquez: Could the oyster mining operation come in eight years ago and say look at my permits about to expire and going through the process can I get one year extension.

K Donovan: Yes, we do grant they asked for was well, the answer is the the listing of longfin smell was part of the complication so they they came in once they were notified that their permit had expired and asked for an after the fact, permit for the for the mining that it occurred after the.

John Vasquez: expiration.

John Vasquez: I guess current what.

John Vasquez: Could they have not come in before that said, my myths about to expire, I have to go through all this process can I get an extension.

John Vasquez: And the reason I say this is because, when the lens sand mining came to us, they wanted a year permit that gotten five year permits in the past one Commissioner asked why are you asking for a year permitted.

John Vasquez: And the President, the company, I think it was said well two years before our permit was supposed to expire, we came in and went through the process that was years ago.

John Vasquez: So they were on one year extension during that whole period and here's the.

John Vasquez: same company who probably could have done the same thing it's a look, we know, things are changing, we have to get a royalty least from the state, we have to go to lance Commission for environmental document.

John Vasquez: And that didn't result in the penalty for them, it was just the process was there, they came forward and said, trying to get to permit two years before expired and then in the basket for years I recall that discussion with the CDC.

John Vasquez: mission meeting that was the reason why, because of the process, just took so long, but yet they continue to mind i'm just wondering why they couldn't have come in and done the same thing on the oyster Shell part of it.

John Vasquez: And they.

K Donovan: Probably could have I can address what we would have done if they had because the the basic fact is that the permit had been expired for a year before it before any discussions between land and BC DC occurred, but.


John Vasquez: Think we're giving them the benefit of doubt they didn't they didn't know that as a business, you know when your permits coming, though.

John Vasquez: You know you don't stay in business, I just think if they if they had acted proactively and came in and says, look at.

John Vasquez: This we know it takes a long time sorry we're only a year before are permissible six expire, can we begin working on it, I just think there was an opportunity for them to do that because they've done it with the sand mining part of it.

John Vasquez: And i'm just putting that out there is.

John Vasquez: is how I look at it from a you know Commissioners point of view, and the other thing is that ritually, as you know, as Commissioners as part of the important to me.

John Vasquez: we're really we see the one slide ran a disadvantage of all the hard work you've done.

John Vasquez: And I think that needs to be noted that there's a lot of work that goes into this there's a lot of give and take, and hopefully we need to be able.

John Vasquez: To be confident in whatever you're doing it you've done everything in the background to make this thing work, so I just.

John Vasquez: it's gotten so much better, since the time I came on and then going through the audit and everything else, but I think we're more efficient or more transparent and we're.

John Vasquez: working towards resolving all of these issues as quickly as they they come on board, but in this case I don't understand why the business already had a model of what to do, and maybe chose not to them, I go to the benefit of cost of doing business.

Brad McCrea: Commissioner sheriff i'll just respond to Minister vasquez by saying that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Thank you for the comments there at the end, the the these old cases are the hardest ones we've talked about that, before, and one of the things that we've gotten a lot.

Brad McCrea: Better at as you've you've indicated and, as you know, is bringing projects to you sooner and earlier and elevating projects as the state auditor said we should.

Brad McCrea: quit twiddling our fingers and quit mucking around and get on with it, and if there's a problem.

Brad McCrea: We don't handle things at the staff level anymore if there's a problem we elevated to the enforcement committee and then under the Commission and so that's how our enforcement program is running now again these older cases are more complicated.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Alright i'm assuming because Karen is not telling me anybody else's hand.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: is raised i'm going to keep going so for cases by type reported so as I mentioned, we get cases in and they give us particular circumstances and.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Typically what's reported ends up being what our investigation is able to substantiate but in other instances it's not.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: But in terms of the breakdown of the 3 cases that we've received in 1 3% of those are public access cases and you should read that to mean anything to do with maintenance or.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: People are putting materials in parking spaces that are supposed to be available to the public and are not.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Available anymore, or lack of maintenance of public access pathways or the bay trail, so all of that is in the public access group.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And then, where it's no permit we get different complaints, where people are.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Putting docs in without getting permission from us first or doing work along the shoreline or making repairs or different things that they might have done, including building structures, without getting our approval.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: As they are required to so that represents % of the cases that we've got reported this year.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And then for dredging, this is the two cases that I am we mentioned that were resolved for Chevron and for me island dry dock and then for dumping that.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Usually, when we have an area where it is within DC DC jurisdiction there's never been a permit and there's no development that's on the property, however.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: People have dumped all sorts of things.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: On the land, so that represents challenges for us in terms of getting the area cleaned up because it's not an area that's in the US it's not an area where we have a public access requirement.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And so you can imagine that there are challenges related to getting the area cleaned up unless it's a on city land where they would typically.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: clean up periodically or, for instance, it might be on a caltrans right of way, and they have an agreement with a local jurisdiction on.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Who does the cleanup in those sorts of areas, but when that dumping happens to happen on private property that's in a remote location where we don't have a permit there's no development, it represents different challenges.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: So, in terms of next steps as we always present to the Commission, we are finalizing the revisions to the enforcement regulations you'll be happy to note that among those is increasing our civil penalties.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Not as not civil penalties or standardized fines, because we have recognized that we don't want people just.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And then also potentially getting an integrated database which, as I mentioned before, the Commission is to enable us to be more efficient by knowing everything that's going on at the organization, at the same time.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And also getting devoted compliance officers.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: are dedicated compliance officers, so that we can proactively verify compliance with permit terms which we just don't have the personnel to do now, one of the recommendations in the audit.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: was to do proactive compliance, which we don't have the bandwidth to do yet, but other than that we are resolving cases as we go and given all the questions ever received i'm not sure if you have any other questions but i'm happy to answer them if you do.

Greg Scharff, Chair: All right, do we have any other final questions I don't see any hands raised from us fan so i'm gonna assume not is there any members of the public who have any comments tonight.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: I don't see any rate.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Alright, so let's move on to Item number seven.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Which is the update on the transition plan for the management of vessels in Richardson bank in Bergen county um.

Greg Scharff, Chair: So I guess what we'll start with is a briefing on the Richardson a regional agencies progress and resolving enforcement action Richardson bay.

Greg Scharff, Chair: But having for so introduce Adrian client from BC vcs enforcement staff Adrian will you will give a brief summary of past briefings on this matter than we introduce richards of a regional agency representative for their presentation going to take it away priscilla.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, and so good morning, once again, a Commission as members of the public.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And so, Adrian Klein will be giving our introduction to inform or remind the Commissioners, where we last received an update and then you'll be hearing from curtis hovel from the rv array with the developments that the rv array has made since your last update from them Adrian.

Adrienne Klein: Good morning, members of the committee and public attendees.

Adrienne Klein: We will share the screen and.

Adrienne Klein: brief overview of the presentation.

Next slide please.

Adrienne Klein: So I think we've covered all of that so next slide please.

Adrienne Klein: So, as you will remember we've had a number of updates regarding richards is Bay both the arb era and the city of sausalito while today is focusing exclusively on the arb era upon property.

Adrienne Klein: And so there have been six updates.

Adrienne Klein: From both agencies with their statistics and management plans in development and i'll and several specialized topics on one on eel grass and one on the challenges are different approaches to addressing occupied unoccupied vessels.

Adrienne Klein: The the vessel counts, have been greatly reduced, as shown and the key element of the management plan that you'll hear more about from curtis hobbled is the safe and see where the Program.

Adrienne Klein: And also, you are aware that state Senator McGuire has been hosting meetings with the local agencies and bcc on developing housing alternatives to.

Adrienne Klein: homes for the the House the pot, the population currently using richardson's bay and their boats for housing.

Adrienne Klein: The rv Barry is working on a habitat management plan and obviously the pandemic has had an impact on the work that they are committed to doing.

Adrienne Klein: So direction from you in very brief form.

Adrienne Klein: When the rba presented it safe and see where the program standards, the committee requested that the rb or a make sure that it's.

Adrienne Klein: vessel protocols align with those of the marinas in the event that the city's safe harbor program was able to absorb those boats, so that the vet the vessel should meet the birthing requirements of the marinas.

Adrienne Klein: The safe and see where the program allows the enrolled members of which only about a six of the occupied vessels.

Adrienne Klein: elected to apply so fewer than 1 of the 1 of the ways that the vessels could become seaworthy and meet the standards was to replace the vessel, there was a the committee wanted to make sure that that would not slow the overall resolution.

Adrienne Klein: The committee directed that the rb or a.

Adrienne Klein: restore eel grass, the damage caused by the vessels to the subtitle habitat.

Adrienne Klein: The committee asked for removal within five years and and to achieve that goal, increase the rate of non compliant vessel removal.

Adrienne Klein: and also the Committee directed the agencies to work with each other and the local governments to pursue the maximum extent possible alternative housing.

Adrienne Klein: And with that I will turn the floor over to curtis hobble who, at this stage needs no introduction and then we have some questions for you, thank you very much.

Curtis Havel: Good morning committee members, my name is curtis howell and I serve as the harbourmaster for the richardson's Bay regional agency i'm going to give the slides here a minute to catch up.

Curtis Havel: Did you have a separate presentation.

Curtis Havel: That is not it.

Curtis Havel: There we go.

Curtis Havel: Alright, so the richardson's Bay is, as you know, small Bay located just north of the golden gate bridge and South of in southern Moran in general it's the anchorage itself is roughly the primary anchorage area is about a mile wide by about two miles in length next slide please.

Curtis Havel: back a couple years back when when DC DC first identified enforcement actions for richardson's bay.

Curtis Havel: The primary thrust was for initiation of action to remove unoccupied marine debris vessels, particularly.

Curtis Havel: And then also to submit a transition plan outlining how we are going to proceed in the future, in July of 19 the.

Curtis Havel: Richardson span regional agencies for directors, adopted a resolution clarifying enforcement priorities, consistent with the CDC direction to remove unoccupied real real vessels and also to strictly enforce the hour limit.

Curtis Havel: Back in July of 19 we had approximately 19 vessels in our era waters, since, as of our account last vessel account last week we're down to 9 vessels so just a quick side note there.

Curtis Havel: that's that's a significant reduction we're down to double digits that number doesn't tell the whole story.

Curtis Havel: At one point, staff asked me, are we still enforcing the hour limit absolutely yes unequivocally, yes, during that time period from July to now, we had over vessels arrive and richardson's bag.

Curtis Havel: Of those 3 are disposed of US marine debris 1 were caused to leave through efforts of our.

Curtis Havel: era staff and unfortunately 1 remain and we are currently focused on encouraging them to the event adhere to the hour limit.

Curtis Havel: So we have been busy working we're not sitting on our conscience, and we are continuing to push forward.

Curtis Havel: Next slide please.

Curtis Havel: The other thing that's rb are aged consistent with BC DC direction as we adopted a transition plan.

Curtis Havel: And the transition plan in my mind has it three primary pillars, one is protection and preservation of your grass, another is supporting.

Curtis Havel: Efforts to relocate individuals in the anchorage into safe and secure housing and then finally manage the anchorage and reduce the number of live aboard vessels down to zero next slide please.

Curtis Havel: We have been working particularly hard with our outreach partners and trying to support their efforts, this is a picture of a member of the downtown streets team interacting with a number out in the anchorage.

Curtis Havel: coven slowed things down, unfortunately, that didn't mean we sat still what that meant was we regrouped internally and looked forward into 1 anticipating what we were going to do when when coven.

Curtis Havel: Finally, when we finally emerged from crowded what's very exciting what i'm happy to report is that the downtown streets team received a significant amount of funding.

Curtis Havel: From rain counties health and human services and what they did was they hired to outreach workers case managers specifically assigned to southern Moran particularly.

Curtis Havel: Focusing on not only saucily doesn't count it, but also the anchorage, this is a huge deal, I want you to understand that this is a massive.

Curtis Havel: shift in attitude former in County and the rv era, this in this didn't just happen overnight, this was efforts that began when the rv era.

Curtis Havel: brought Andrew hinting on board as a consultant to begin raising awareness about individuals living on the anchorage that were vulnerable on unseaworthy vessels and that the, the situation was critical and that they needed help.

Curtis Havel: We just at the beginning of March, started rotations of are the two new outreach workers going out into the anchorage they've contracted with private contractors in sausalito.

Curtis Havel: To get out on boats, other than the richardson's a regional agency patrol vessel Unfortunately, at this point when anchor when members of the anchorage see the rv or a patrol vessel coming.

Curtis Havel: The reception is less than warm what that'd be another indicator that we have not been sitting on our hunches so anyways that's as our to I shouldn't say our as the downtown streets teens to new outreach workers get out in the anchorage.

Curtis Havel: A vr vr is doing everything we can to support them, but their operation is separate and distinct and it's in their best interest to maintain a certain distance from our era, but we will continue to support them next slide please.

Curtis Havel: Another exciting development for 1 is the grass protection management plan we're bringing a draft plan to the rb or a board of directors to at their April 8 board meeting.

Curtis Havel: The draft plan is going to essentially identify areas of the anchorage based on data prepared by Keith Merkel and associates based on data provided by audubon society and based on data provided by fish and wildlife.

Curtis Havel: overlaid on on one another to show where the primary concentrations of your grass are hearing spawning beds and we're using that data to identify areas of the anchorage that really aren't.

Curtis Havel: ideal or primary as for anchoring you know if we're going to try to protect these resources.

Curtis Havel: I don't want to get too deep into the plan, right now, if you're interested in hearing more about it come to our April 8 meeting and you'll get to see all the nitty gritty details on the other big thing on this front, the, with the assistance if you can.

Curtis Havel: move to the next slide real quick, please.

Curtis Havel: With the assistance of our consultant coastal policy solutions Rebecca Schwartz last bird rb era was able to obtain grant funding from ocean protection Council significant funding.

Curtis Havel: To not only help us get the draft plan adopted and well hopefully adopted knock on wood, but then continue with implementation so beginning our efforts to.

Curtis Havel: actually implement the plan once it's once it's adopted.

Curtis Havel: So that we don't see this anymore, and that we can give you guys a chance to repopulate richardson's betting if you can move to the next slide please.

Curtis Havel: As always, I like to I like to touch on just kind of a really fundamental issue richardson's Bay is a special anchorage.

Curtis Havel: The efforts of the transition plan the safe and see where the plan your grass protection management plan, none of these things are going to.

Curtis Havel: Turn richardson's Bay, you know it's not going to remove richardson's Bay from being an anchorage it will continue to be an anchorage its designated as a special anchorage by.

Curtis Havel: The national oceanic and atmospheric administration, knowing.

Curtis Havel: What that essentially means is that typically when a mariner drops anchor in a location, they have to light up an anchor light at night that's pursuant to the core regs that the rules for avoiding navigation or avoiding collision and see.

Curtis Havel: richardson's Bay has been an anchorage for so long it's acknowledged by the Federal Government as an anchorage when you anchor there you actually aren't required to light up your anchor light at night, if your vessel is less than meters in length.

Curtis Havel: I like pointing this out because it's unfortunately it's a popular.

Curtis Havel: False narrative has evolved over the years that this is some sort of a federally regulated special anchorage that is not true, if you look at code of federal regulations 1 point 1 a.

Curtis Havel: That clearly identifies richardson's a regional agency as being the go to agency for information off the rules and regulations for anchoring and richardson's back.

Curtis Havel: If you go to the next slide please.

Curtis Havel: Another big pillar of the transition plan was the safe and see where the program the idea behind this was to enable.

Curtis Havel: mariners an opportunity to bring their vessel up to a certain seaworthy condition.

Curtis Havel: That would enable them to get insurance for their vessel to ensure that their vessels operable, so that if they go adrift they're not going to hurt themselves or someone else or continue to pollute the environment.

Curtis Havel: This also the other kind of benefit of this is if they meet the requirements of the safe and see where the Program.

Curtis Havel: They would also be eligible to obtain a slip and a Marina they would be meeting the fundamental requirements so meaning they've got insurance they've got an operable vessel their vessel is registered their vessel.

Curtis Havel: is clean and orderly and so it's it all kind of dovetails with instruction that we received over the years from DC DC.

Curtis Havel: You know, working towards a larger big puzzle towards how are we going to manage the anchorage as we move forward.

Curtis Havel: and out of when we when we first circulated the transition plan throughout the anchorage at that time, I think there was about 1 vessels in the anchorage and we had vessels sign up for the safe and see where the program we've been conducting inspections on these vessels.

Curtis Havel: i'm actually happy to say that the large majority of the inspections that we've conducted, thus far, are you know we're we're seeing vessels that are operable, and that the mariners are keeping track of it, so that that's a good sign.

Curtis Havel: If we can move to the next slide please.

Curtis Havel: Ultimately, this is what we are trying to avoid out on the anchorage, this is an example of a marine debris vessel that blue in during this the one of the last winter storms this past year.

Curtis Havel: that the person who was aboard this vessel was so shaken up to wake up and find themselves on the opposite into the bay that they essentially walked away from there, but.

Curtis Havel: Of course, the rv era does participate in the voluntary training program sponsored and funded by the Department of voting and waterways, so we were able to help them out and dispose the vessel.

Curtis Havel: and give them an opportunity to to walk away from the boat without significant financial harm to themselves, if you can move to the next slide.

Curtis Havel: Ultimately, all the efforts that we've been doing it's what the underpinning of everything that the rba is doing, I read I recognize that the are the BC DCS enforcement committee has its goals for.

Curtis Havel: Providing enforcement on and Richard since day.

Curtis Havel: But as far as when you look at the transition plan the underpinning of everything and safety, so we want to make sure that the vessels that are out on the anchorage are safe and see where the.

Curtis Havel: And that they're not going to cause harm to their occupants to other folks anchored out as well as the environment.

Curtis Havel: we're trying to avoid people dying out there, this past season we've had three deaths on the anchorage already and that's that's just.

Curtis Havel: Beyond unacceptable the fact that both still sync with for no reason other than lack of maintenance is absolutely unacceptable and.

Curtis Havel: we're trying to also make it safe for all users are richardson's Bay, not just a small limited group of folks who have laid claim incorrectly laid claim to use exclusive use of richardson's day one of the things that we've been seeing after our last round of water testing, we were.

Curtis Havel: The folks that we work with that crunch, all the data and look at the water data, said that the water quality, results are coming coming back looking actually really good so we've seen an improvement in water quality, which is encouraging.

Curtis Havel: And ultimately that's you know again when you talk about safety, that means that families coming down to sausalito to recreate in the water don't have to worry about.

Curtis Havel: getting sick if they they jumped in the water on a nice day.

Curtis Havel: Right now, if you can forward to the next slide please, in conclusion, right now, the biggest challenge that era is facing, as we are internally discussing how we are going to move forward.

Curtis Havel: Managing occupied vessels on richardson's bay and i'm in conversation with board members individually, as well as legal counsel, as well as our law enforcement partners.

Curtis Havel: And i'm hoping that.

Curtis Havel: Soon the rv or a board of directors, will be able to report on a.

Curtis Havel: Clear and clarified approach on how we're going to continue managing the anchorage in a way that is compassionate in a way that is thoughtful in a way that is safe and in a way that ultimately.

Curtis Havel: accomplishes all the goals that we've set out in the transition plan so that concludes my presentation and i'm happy to answer any questions.

Adrienne Klein: Thank you so much curtis.

Adrienne Klein: We have a few questions for the committee john if you wouldn't mind rolling back on our slide deck.

Adrienne Klein: So I can present those.

Adrienne Klein: Thanks john.

Adrienne Klein: So committee members um.

Adrienne Klein: We thought you may want to discuss.

Adrienne Klein: The progress that you've heard about and how that may relate to meeting your recommendation that this matter be resolved within five years.

Adrienne Klein: and any thoughts on challenges that that have been described and how they're being handled and any.

Adrienne Klein: thoughts on ongoing efforts to enable compliance, thank you very much.

Larry Goldzband: Greg you're muted.

Greg Scharff, Chair: All right, not anymore good.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I said I don't see any Commissioners hands up.

Greg Scharff, Chair: There we go, so any questions for on these issues, Commissioners are you only going to get off.

Greg Scharff, Chair: i'm not seeing.

That seeing.

Greg Scharff, Chair: All right, so can you bring that slide up that you just had.

Greg Scharff, Chair: The one with the questions that you've had for permission to Commissioners so.

Greg Scharff, Chair: There so.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I guess we've talked about a five year deadline, but it's been about a year now that we've been discussing this so isn't it now, for your deadline.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I think that's me now we're I guess that's sort of the next question, I think we need to sort of always have a slide that says a five year deadline, I think we now need to put a date on it.

Greg Scharff, Chair: and say, everyone needs to work towards that day so it's a particular date um.

Greg Scharff, Chair: You know I think it's great that we're down to decibels I was maybe you could clarify that some of those vessels came in after you impose the hour.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And they're just not leaving is that was that my understanding or did I misunderstand that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: That was for you curtis.

Curtis Havel: Okay, great.

Curtis Havel: Yes, we so that that July 19 resolution clarified that we were serious about him enforcing the hour limit and we have done so.

Curtis Havel: The simple fact is, is that there are there are still vessels out in the anchorage that arrived after the adoption of that that resolution and it's been exceedingly difficult to get rid of them and we're evaluating all.

Curtis Havel: tools at our disposal to.

Curtis Havel: Help them comply with the rules and regulations for anchoring and richardson's back.

Greg Scharff, Chair: um are you when you say it's difficult, I mean.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Mechanisms with a pleat with a.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Basically, the police to remove them.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Or am I misunderstanding that.

Curtis Havel: We work with law enforcement so.

Curtis Havel: We work with Marin county sheriff's office they've been fantastic United States coast guard has been wonderful in terms of providing support as well.

Curtis Havel: Even sausalito police department, I have to you know we we work with them regularly and we've actually re initiated our right along programs so officers from tiburon mill valley and Belvedere have all been joining us on the rbi patrol vessel.

Curtis Havel: That this, this is it we are, we are at the critical juncture that we knew was coming, which is how do we manage an occupied vessel.

Curtis Havel: So we have not been removing.

Curtis Havel: We have not been displacing people from their vessels, certainly not during the pandemic.

Curtis Havel: And certainly if we know they don't have anywhere else to go and that's you know I think generally viewed as inhumane so.

Curtis Havel: And I would agree with that so we're at that that.

Curtis Havel: horribly wonderful moment where now we have to figure out how we're going to how we're going to do this and that's one of the great.

Curtis Havel: Encouraging things that i'm seeing for 1 is that we have dedicated caseworkers focusing on richardson's bag.

Curtis Havel: i'm really hoping that.

Curtis Havel: They can build some momentum out there and start finding housing we actually over the during the last couple of months, we had a couple of different vessels sank.

Curtis Havel: They were occupied and those folks were putting housing, so we actually had three people put in housing successfully one of them left after a little while because they didn't for, for whatever reason.

Curtis Havel: That you know we finally hit that mark, where we got some people in housing, which was great.

Curtis Havel: I at this point, I would rather.

Curtis Havel: I need my board to clarify how we're going to move forward.

Curtis Havel: In a way, that's consistent.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Let me give you some some thoughts that i'm having.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Obviously, we want you to be humane, but obviously people dying out there it's not your main either right, so I mean I I mean three deaths as you started this office not is not in any realm accepted right so it's not just a matter of displacing people it's a matter of safety.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Now, in my mind at least.

Greg Scharff, Chair: There was a difference between people that came after the resolution.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And it seems to me, when you say you are not displacing people who come after.

Greg Scharff, Chair: That you are violating your own resolution that you are, in fact, saying that if they just show up and choose not to leave, we are not going to force them to leave.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I don't think that's acceptable.

Greg Scharff, Chair: In fact, I mean that's just simply not accepted um.

Greg Scharff, Chair: So.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I really do think.Greg Scharff, Chair: That we needed a firm date when everyone has to be gone instead of calling it a five year deadline.Greg Scharff, Chair: You know by this date, and I think we have to set up milestones of how many boats will be gone by then or a plan or something.Greg Scharff, Chair: so that you know we can then have milestones at that, I mean I realize it's more of a challenge for sausalito than it was for sausalito in some ways bigger it's more boats that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: You know, but we need to basically have an agreement with the rv era, like we had with sausalito and staff needs to work with you guys and come up with that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: But obviously if we can't work with you on that, then I think we need to move district or measures in terms of enforcement.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And I think that's that's The challenge here I mean obviously it's our preference to work with you have you guys come up with a plan that you say will work.

Greg Scharff, Chair: But I am disturbed by the fact that people have come out to your resolution and I don't see how they're being treated differently.

Greg Scharff, Chair: i'm happy to i'm not lecturing you in any way i'm just saying that was my thought on that and I think that's where the first things we have to look at and say we can't have more people come there and say that's that's got to be the bottom line.

Greg Scharff, Chair: So I don't know if you have any reaction to that or it's just helpful thoughts that we have.

Greg Scharff, Chair: curtis do want to.

Curtis Havel: appreciate the feedback and frankly I in terms of.

Curtis Havel: You know, on the ground operations.

Curtis Havel: We definitely focus on vessels that arrived after the cutoff date.

Curtis Havel: You know if if you were on the boat with me and you saw their reactions and why you picking on me, I mean I suppose that's every single law enforcement staff person in the state of California, is probably heard about where you give me a ticket.

Curtis Havel: You know it's.

Curtis Havel: What you're going to hear, as we continue to intensify our efforts is that we are you know violating people's rights or harassing people or whatnot I want you to know that that's not our intent.

Curtis Havel: But that we are going to continue applying pressure and that we do have tools available to us that can help.

Curtis Havel: Not only provide notification but notification with consequence and that's what i'm working on with my board right now something else too, I want to mention to you that I didn't mention my presentation is I have been.

Curtis Havel: meeting with bcc staff on a regular basis and we've been trying to hammer out the terms of the agreement, you know, to the extent that we can.

Curtis Havel: But I appreciate your feedback and then, if other board members or committee members have feedback i'd love to hear it okay.

Greg Scharff, Chair: No that's helpful, I just wanted to be realistic and upfront with you that I believe from the committee's point of view that we are looking for milestones.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And a path that we can then expect to hold your feet, to the fire and if we can't come to an agreement, we are then going to move forward.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Without your agreement, basically, and I just want to be real clear about that I don't want it to be, and one of the things that came out of the.

Greg Scharff, Chair: The audit of BC disease enforcement process was that we tend to we tend to time work with people for too long.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I think that's probably the easiest way to put it, we were chastised for allowing things to continue for too long.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And for not basically cutting it off and saying, well, we can't seem to get to an agreement so we're going to go through the enforcement process.

Greg Scharff, Chair: and, obviously, our preference is always to work with people and there's a tension there for us, just like I think you have tensions on on how to deal with things we have that tension and so.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I think we're going to need deadlines and milestones and how do we actually get there in that five years that there are no liberal boards out there.

Greg Scharff, Chair: and

Greg Scharff, Chair: You know I think we've talked a little bit before has has has the rb era, adopted a policy that's clear that there will be no boats out there in five years.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And that people have come to that understanding, because when we started this there were notions that people might be there might be a Community there forever and it was unclear to me that the board had made that transition, yet in their minds.

Curtis Havel: that the transition plan does clearly state that we're going to work, the number of live aboard vessels in the anchorage down to zero.

Curtis Havel: What what we don't have is the end date and that's you know, in terms of the transition plan.

Curtis Havel: It didn't necessarily set up the deadlines and milestones that you're referring to like, but it did.

Curtis Havel: It did say you know did express that that policy direction that yeah this is, you know, consistent with our vr a code.

Curtis Havel: There should be no limit boards out there it's a hour anchorage it's been that way since 198 so it's I think the adoption of the transition plan in and of itself was a big attitude shift for the rbi board of directors.

Curtis Havel: Because they did state in the transition plan that that was the intention, so what.

Curtis Havel: For what that's worth.

Greg Scharff, Chair: hurt us, I did want to say I recognize the hard work you're putting into this and it is appreciated.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Commissioner vasquez has his hand up good Commissioner vasquez.

John Vasquez: I just saw want to reaffirm what you've said Greg I think what we need our milestones and a timeline it's four years now, and I think come we're.

John Vasquez: For almost approaching five that we begin the action that we need to take in order to not wait to the end of the year and say Okay, what do we do now, I think if we clearly state that that here come.

John Vasquez: Six months before this deadline supposed to occur, we don't see you there that we begin the action itself, I mean.

John Vasquez: You keep your feet, to the fire that's why one way of doing it, I don't want it well, I whoever the enforcement committee is.

John Vasquez: Four years from now, I don't want them to look at and say wow okay now, what do we do we've come to the fifth year the deadlines is going to pass and nothing's gotten any better, but those milestones in the timeline are necessary.

John Vasquez: And then of course of action or for some activity is going to be in place, I think that's, the only way you keep feet, to the fire I saying.

John Vasquez: Your for.

John Vasquez: third month, this is what we're going to start doing.

John Vasquez: or fourth month or fifth month whatever we want to put in there, but I think there ought to be a debt a true deadline.

Greg Scharff, Chair: yeah I totally agree with that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: um Mr Gilmore do you want to weigh in or or or not.

Mari Gilmore: Thank you, I had my hand up.

Mari Gilmore: I totally agree with what my colleagues have been saying, and I think it's vitally important that we have not only a deadline, but milestones.

Mari Gilmore: Because I think curtis mentioned that there's going to be a meeting of his board of directors, as to what the next steps are so I feel like it behooves BC DC to be very, very clear.

Mari Gilmore: As to what our expectations are, and when we expect those milestones to be completed, so that when the rbi or a board of directors is thinking about their next steps there's no doubt as to what we expect.

Mari Gilmore: And I think that mission or vasquez was right that who's ever on the enforcement committee in four years.

Mari Gilmore: should not be waiting for the fourth year and going Oh, what do we do now, but we will have very specific milestones that we can check in on three optically and see where the herb era is and and.

Mari Gilmore: You know how they are proceeding to meet those milestones having said all of that.

Mari Gilmore: It is possible that we could have something out of left field, I don't wish it on us any longer, or anything like that, but that's the reason that you have checking points because if there is some truly unforeseen circumstance, then we can make adjustments and I think that is preferable.

Mari Gilmore: than waiting towards.

Mari Gilmore: The end of the fourth year and going oh we're nowhere near by our goals, what do we do now, so I am totally in favor of a firm deadline.

Mari Gilmore: And milestones along the way.

Mari Gilmore: and check in points like we've been doing, thank you.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Thank you um any other Commissioners Commissioner wagon connected.

Brad Wagenknecht : yeah If I could just this is my first time as as an enforcement person on this and the.

Brad Wagenknecht : You know from the broader from the broader board perspective I haven't been living through this and going through this process that that you all have i'm.

Brad Wagenknecht : i'm thrilled we're moving we're moving in this direction and I, it seems very positive to be compared to where compared to what I was doing, but the the worry that I had as a broader as a broader board member, I like the idea of of timelines and and.

Brad Wagenknecht : In in compliance.

Brad Wagenknecht : and working together with the arb era and in getting moving this forward I I I like what we've what we've kind of outlined.

Brad Wagenknecht : And chair sharp has been I think bear, you know as he has given a good outline of what we, what we need.

Brad Wagenknecht : You know so you've got it sounds like you have a unanimous committee that's working with you.

Brad Wagenknecht : Keep keep up the work in towards that positive positive goal.

Greg Scharff, Chair: yeah yes, thank you.

Mari Gilmore: i'm just just one more comment.

Mari Gilmore: Having said what I just said about milestones and goals, I do really want to recognize that I feel like the arb era has been making really great strides.

Mari Gilmore: It throughout this process with us, and I do want to acknowledge that I believe that they've been working really hard and they've been compassionate.

Mari Gilmore: And just in general that they're doing a good job and I feel like they've been listening to us and doing the best they can, in view of their challenges both coven and money and other resources, so I just wanted to put that out there.

Greg Scharff, Chair: I appreciate that as well.

Greg Scharff, Chair: um so do we have any members of the public that wish to just speak for so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: We do, yes, we do go ahead.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: rock the lap.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Go ahead, Mr de la.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: All right, Mr dunlap you have three minutes.

Brock de Lappe: You, yes, can you hear me.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: Yes, yes.

Brock de Lappe: So I appreciate the challenges that you're dealing with in Richardson spay.

Brock de Lappe: And I applaud the efforts that are being made.

Brock de Lappe: My concern is that what we could be faced with is whack a mole these boats when they're pressured out of Richardson spay have to go someplace.

Brock de Lappe: And many are coming over to the oakland estuary in 13 we had a very major cleanup as Adrian Klein knows of all of the illegal anchor out boats on the estuary.

Brock de Lappe: This is required a very steady ongoing enforcement to keep these boats from showing up again and it's just like homelessness on.

Brock de Lappe: city parks, if you allow one there'll be two if you allow to there'll be four and pretty soon you have a very large problem.

Brock de Lappe: So yes, you may be cleaning up richardson's Bay, you may be forcing boats to move along, but where are they going to go.

Brock de Lappe: And many of these boats are very close to or at end of life and the problem is, is that they're not worth much frequently they're not even properly registered or insured.

Brock de Lappe: When there's a problem with them, they just sink and are left.

Brock de Lappe: For somebody else to deal with, as has happened for boats at the Jacqueline and aquatic Center at the public Doc there, there are two sunken boats on both sides of the dock that have not been removed they've been there for years.

Brock de Lappe: And the the problem for the enforcement is unlike a vehicle on land where you can tow a vehicle to an impound yard.

Brock de Lappe: there's no equivalency on the water there's no place to take these vessels, so the police that are faced with enforcing this problem, what can they do.

Brock de Lappe: And monies that are available from the division and boating and waterways for dealing with abandon their souls and marine.

Brock de Lappe: debris is totally totally inadequate it doesn't come anywhere near facing the needs that exist.

Brock de Lappe: I personally with my five marinas slips I have over boats that i'm sitting on that have been abandoned in my Marina.

Brock de Lappe: I, unlike harbor masters in the past, refused to sell them for $ and say I don't care what you do with it just get it out of my Marina because I know that i'll be contributing to a problem.

Brock de Lappe: So now, I have boats in slips that I cannot rent that are uninsured that aren't registered and it's just a marine debris sitting in my Marina.

Brock de Lappe: And there's no place to take these there needs to be some type of legislation at a State level, where they will develop recycling facilities to address.

Brock de Lappe: These end of life vessels if we don't do that the problem is going only persist and get worse sorry that's my soapbox, but it would really help if if the.

Brock de Lappe: BC DC could somehow elicit some response from state legislature to come up with a funds to adequately address this problem.

Brock de Lappe: There needs to be recycling facilities in both northern and southern California, that they can deal with this ongoing and growing influx of end of life vessels, thank you.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: chef that's all we have from the public, I see Commissioner vasquez.

Larry Goldzband: We actually if I can interrupt we actually have, I believe, at least one other Q amp a from the public that we should ask for make sure is is noted.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Why don't we go to Commissioner that, when you said whether.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: it's it's in the question and answers in chat so.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: As deadlines and.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: milestones are laid out can be CDC have a schedule of remedies in place specifically financial penalties if milestones are not met, and the final deadline is not met by the rp array.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: And then another question that we have is does curtis feel that he and his staffs personal security is adequately protected.

On which curtis responded, we need all the help we can get.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: We have another public comment.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Okay, great when we grow that public come on.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: My name is Rebecca.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: Rebecca.

Rebecca: hi can you hear me.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: Yes, you have three minutes.

Rebecca: Great Thank you this is Rebecca Schwartz less Bergen with coastal policy solutions.

Rebecca: I am the the consultant working with our era, on the progress production management plan.

Rebecca: But kind of taking that hat off for a second as somebody who's been involved with this for a number of years now, I really wanted to underscore the comment from the Marina operator that was just made before me.

Rebecca: Because this really is.

Rebecca: rb array is ambitious and Bay is on the the the sort of the tailpipe of the receiving end of an issue that is just a wide and even an even nationwide that we don't.

Rebecca: Have processes for what to do with boats at the end of their life and it's a conversation that's happening, I think at the state legislature about plastics and recycling about.

Rebecca: You know, use the manufacturer responsibility and but it's not necessarily happening as much for boats and I think the comparison with cars is really good one, you can take them to a tow lot but it's a lot more complicated with boats.

Rebecca: And so you know, while I support, and I think the enforcement committee, for you know, supporting the work that our beer is doing and even providing that pressure that helps our era do its job.

Rebecca: I just want to make sure that the the full nuance of the situation out there is is well understood.

Rebecca: And that it is very akin to a homeless problem where you know just making it illegal to be homeless in one park doesn't get the people how's your off the streets.

Rebecca: I applaud the work that are very is doing, I think they're doing a great job they have had situations where their personal safety was put in danger they're not law enforcement officers curtis is not a sworn officer, so they rely on the support from those law enforcement agencies.

Rebecca: And I just, you know as we're talking about you know timelines and all of that I just really want to make sure that we're having a very frank conversation about the the full.

Rebecca: Issues out there that it's not just a matter of somebody hasn't gone by and told somebody that they need to leave, but that the question of what to do when they won't leave.

Rebecca: How aggressive to be you know how much life and personal property to put at risk, to get them to leave, I mean, these are all really big questions that aren't as simple as just.

Rebecca: You need to move along now so that's basically what I wanted to say is that the making sure that as we're having these conversations we're recognizing the full suite of the issues out there, thank you so much.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Thank you for.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: Every becca.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Alright, so.

Margie Malan, BCDC HOST: I see no other hands raised.

Greg Scharff, Chair: your hands raised all right that just brings us back to the Commissioner, Commissioner vasquez you if you're raising your hand.

John Vasquez: Yes, thank you, I think Brock for reminding us of this particular issue, I think it never really goes away I just remember some years back, probably.

John Vasquez: eight or nine years ago, at a meeting in oakland where we had cal recycle and some of the other state agencies talking about this very issue, what do you do with the in the lifeboats it's simply get bought for five bucks or hundred bucks whatever and somebody thinks they're a.

John Vasquez: captain of a ship and then you know it ends and die someplace we see it in the delta quite often the delta has those issues.

John Vasquez: I just think with everybody that's Ray so many concerns whether it's the agency or commission's that we haven't been able to resolve this, it is a problem and we end up as B, C D C D end user of these of these crafts.

John Vasquez: You know, trying to deal with them, I think, if it was dealt up front in the particular sale of the vessel itself that somebody needs to be held responsible for.

John Vasquez: And I commend a rock for not participating in that i'll sell a boat for bucks and then don't worry about what happens to it.

John Vasquez: So I don't know where our role is and all of that I know we've had presentations to us in the past, and maybe it's time to look at that again and.

John Vasquez: Certainly, as a as a member of the board of supervisors we've taken to writing letters and asking for help it goes our sheriff has to patrol and then he finds these boats are you know citizens see them and and we go Okay, maybe we get enough money to take out one.

John Vasquez: Anyway, those are my comments.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Thank you for that.

Greg Scharff, Chair: All right, I don't see any further comments from Commissioners, so I think that brings us to our next agenda item.

Larry Goldzband: hold on before shrek shrek Mr sharp, can I ask a question I want to make sure I want to make sure that we either staff neither gets ahead of you by too much, although we certainly like to be ahead of you, but certainly not behind you.

Larry Goldzband: I want to take the discussion one step further, if possible you've all asked for deadlines you've asked for milestones.

Larry Goldzband: With sausalito our staff worked very successfully with the city of sausalito staff to develop a stipulated agreement essentially an agreement that you all approved and has the force of law for all intent purpose.

Larry Goldzband: Is that what you are requesting that the CDC staff start doing now, with the rb era.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Yes, absolutely I think I guess, I was under the impression we were already doing that.

Larry Goldzband: I just wanted I.

Larry Goldzband: want we're working toward that I just wanted to hear it from you all.

Larry Goldzband: yeah so make sure that.

Larry Goldzband: To make sure that we were working under those same set of assumptions.

Greg Scharff, Chair: So we can go around and check in with each of the Commissioners, but that was my understanding is what we're working towards, and that was what my comment was is that we can all work so long on this before I think we need to move to the next step if we can't come to an agreement between.

Greg Scharff, Chair: How that's gonna work.

K Donovan: yeah and just to know this is a, but this has been agenda is is a briefing but I appreciate the larry's just trying to confirm.

K Donovan: That we're moving in the direction that has been previously provided pursuant to any votes i'm I guess to be even more direct, this is not agenda is for any action or vote.

Larry Goldzband: Right and I.

Larry Goldzband: And I apologize to Karen for raising her blood pressure because of what i've sort of said, and how i've said it much less sherry I as long as nobody on the committee basically disagrees I think we're fine and we understand your thought process.

John Vasquez: No votes just head shaking.

Mari Gilmore: yeah so I was under the impression, like the Chair that we were doing the same process with the rv era that we were doing with the city of sausalito it's just that we realized that coming to a resolution with the rv era would take longer to the city of sausalito.

Mari Gilmore: But we were still going along the same path okay.

Larry Goldzband: we're all on the same page Thank you.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Alright, so there's nothing further on this side and then we'll move to future agenda items for selling.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Yes, and so, for future agenda items as your own anticipating we are hoping to have some discussion as to some resolution that we reach.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: For how we're going to address the matters and Richardson Bay that are pending, over and above that I wanted to make sure I inform Members of the committee that.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: The Minutes that you'll be receiving for enforcement committee will be a little bit different because of budget constraints, we will no longer be having court reporters for meetings where we don't have.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: contested matters so for a meeting, such as today's, we will have the recording it will be posted on our website, there will be minutes, but they won't look like what we get from our Court reporters it will be.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Traditional minutes, which means a summary of the highlights of what happened during the meeting, not what you're used to seeing, so I wanted to make sure that they're aware of it.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: Going forward so you're not wondering how come the Minutes look different but that's what's going on there and Karen do you have anything to add.

K Donovan: Books I just one thing to add, and I am I, this is very hard for me to add, I am going to be leaving DC DC this isn't the last time you'll see me, though I am ensuring that this transition will accommodate.

K Donovan: The needs of the Agency and ensure that we have no hopefully gaps in coverage and that priscilla gets the support and that she needs I can't tell you how difficult this decision has been.

K Donovan: The enforcement team at the CDC is extraordinary and working with them, particularly to advance the reforms that we have has just been such a wonderful opportunity and.

K Donovan: Fortunately, I you know, have been doing this long enough that I know that i'm replaceable don't bring anything unique to the table, and we will find an adequate replacement for me so.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Well Karen we're definitely miss you that's a real shock i'm really sorry to hear that i've really enjoyed working with you and.

Greg Scharff, Chair: you've been a great asset to this, and I think a lot of this moving forward is, and you know you've been such a huge asset and really appreciate the effort to.

Greg Scharff, Chair: um I did have one other thing I wanted to say that I got is and I guess, this goes to you Karen is the formal record for court purposes.

Greg Scharff, Chair: If we're changing our Minutes from a court reporter would be the recording then not the actual minutes, I think we need to make that clear because i've seen cities running into trouble on that were obviously that reporting is a clear indication of what happened.

K Donovan: And, just to clarify on ours, we will still be having a court reporter President and doing an official transcript when we are conducting any type of.

K Donovan: Industry Yuri and so that, so the decision has been made, that we will not have the detailed minutes and paid for the Court reporter when we're doing things like we did today with a briefing now just so you know also zoom does produce a transcript, it is not.

K Donovan: A well well particularly and I hate to single out Commissioner wagon connect but basically every string it stringing together towards the ends and connect.

K Donovan: It has been has appeared in the transcripts of prior meetings zoom is just not good.

K Donovan: At really giving you an accurate portrayal of what was said, but we could always if ever necessary using both the audio transcript and the zoom transcript.

K Donovan: be able to reproduce word for word what was said, but we don't see the need for for investing the money in doing a verbatim transcript for anything other than than a hearing if we are conducting on.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Mine was more of a legal point because the city of Palo Alto actually ran into that when they switched a little bit about what was the actual official minutes of the meeting.

Greg Scharff, Chair: When they conflicted and and the judge ruled, it was the official minutes, not the not the video unless you designated it to be the video.

Greg Scharff, Chair: And doesn't need it to be the video in those instances where.

Greg Scharff, Chair: There wasn't there wasn't a court reporter, which we never had a quarter quarter, but that was that's why I just wanted us not to get caught in that if there's ever.

Greg Scharff, Chair: You know where it's non contested matter so, so to speak, so we don't have a court reporter, but on the other hand, we incorrectly reflect what the votes were or what it was in the summary.

K Donovan: And we will be checking to ensure that doesn't happen, and when priscilla had noted that our Minutes are now going to look sort of more like other traditional minutes.

K Donovan: The purpose of the Minutes, is to reflect the action items, including the adoption of the prior minutes and to have a record that there was a vote and action taken on items on and the end the Minutes will still do that.

Priscilla Njuguna, BCDC: All right, shall we have a hand raised by Commissioner vasquez.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Mr baskets.

John Vasquez: yeah I guess is my talking they up at the at the county we call them extra minutes that it just records the actions well, not so much detail as to who said what but.

John Vasquez: This is probably more meaningful now Karen that since you made that announcement, I just want to thank the enforcement staff.

John Vasquez: Or, as we refer to the last the last item milestones and timelines I think the way that we're working now you keep our as Commissioners.

John Vasquez: and enforcement way you keep our feet, to the fire to begin to do this work that we we know we have to do and to move forward i'm just appreciative of that fact that we have any means the information comes to us.

John Vasquez: And that we're we're moving along and I think we have that momentum now obviously my actions as a member of the enforcement committee and probably.

John Vasquez: I would say, probably said, you know I don't have to act with compassion, or I just have to go by the rules.

John Vasquez: If it goes to the full Commission and they seek to be a little more compassion that we are that's another action, but I clearly understand what my role and want to thank all of you for providing that.

John Vasquez: In particular, the milestones and the timelines and not letting anything sit on at the desk too long just wanted to say thank you.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Thank you.

Greg Scharff, Chair: anyone else.

All right.

Greg Scharff, Chair: Mr Gilmore.

Mari Gilmore: And, in light of karen's announcement, I just want to say kieran we're going to miss you I have personally enjoyed working with you.

Mari Gilmore: And I appreciate the clarity that you bring to explanations and i'm going to.

Mari Gilmore: echo what Mr vasquez said it's been great having.

Mari Gilmore: milestones and timelines and having our feet being held to the fire in a good way.

Mari Gilmore: So, but best of luck to you and, whatever your future endeavors are you will be missed.

Mari Gilmore: All right, thank you.

Greg Scharff, Chair: i'm all right with that, I think we can move to adjourn the meeting so meeting is adjourned.